I don’t deny that this happens. But gear is so meaningless now that instead of quitting when you got BiS, people are just quitting when they get AOTC or Cutting Edge. My alliance guild died at the start of BFA because once we got AOTC a lot of people bounced because mythic wasn’t worth the time for just a feat of strength.
4 Likes
Except for the fact that gear isn’t meaningless.
1 Like
You’re talking too a min-max mentality. No answer will be enough. Just like all the “forced” content in MoP. Or the AP grind in legion. This group will always complain about something. Funny that they focus on wf/tf
1 Like
I just levelled a dk, haven’t done above a 4 in m+, did the first wing of lfr once, and the guild i’m in, the average ilvl is 398, i’m sitting at 397 without being in there at all >.> logical? stupid system is stupid
This is what I hate most in the game! (Ok, not flying by now is right up there too)
Meaningless in the sense of it’s not exciting or interesting. We will farm the same traits all expansion on Azerite. Most of us will be farming the same gear all expansion from M+. I will probably have the Rezans trinket from Atal for all of BFA just like my Druid had the trinket from Halls of Valor for all of Legion. It’s not fun to have nothing to look forward to in terms of gear.
You keep using that word.
But it does highlight that vers is an utterly garbage stat for most classes. Ranking near or close to the bottom. Reforging or being able to swap vers for crit, haste etc would make vers wanted.
An example
You can swap 200 vers for 100 of 2 secondary stats or 200. Of one secondary.
I agree bring back Master Loot at least for Raids. Personal loot for organized raiding is probably the worst decision Blizzard has made.
2 Likes
So, a lowly guy like me who basically isn’t raiding or M+'ing atm can fill a few gear slots with a really high level item. You, the hard core raider, will pretty much fill your entire body with high level items. I mean, c’mon, let’s be realistic, I will not be able to come close to your ilvl by dong WQ’s, Warfronts and LFR. The math just isn’t there.
1 Like
I’m my humble opinion: this is Eloquence, the Statement. Rated M
Perfectly stated
The fact that there is or isn’t “enough to do” isn’t the point. The point is that there is realistically very little overlap of players who are mythic raiders and those who do LFR and warfronts but mythic raiders pretty much all do that content once, realize it is fail proof and requires little to no effort from them.
The people that content is made for may find it “challenging” but the problem is why do they need to get better at the game or strive for anything more when they can get, to put in your own words, in 20 hrs of doing that low tier content, the same gear that the players whom find it to be trivial and boring get in 4 hrs of difficult mythic raid content. The fact of which you left out requires the other 20 hours for preparation gathering information, farming materials, farming heroic, farming m+, and pvping.
This disparity in effort committed is what makes higher end heroic and mythic raiders dislike a system which rewards mediocrity the same as actually trying. They take it out on the people getting these 60 ilvl titanforges from warfronts and wqs, widening differences and fostering hostility, meanwhile the low tier content players don’t try to learn or get better on their own time, they expect to be allowed into groups willy nilly because no system they encountered until then required game knowledge or skill higher than perhaps not keyboard turning. Once in those groups if they can somehow get in, they’re greeted by either a swift kick after several mess ups or lower than tank dps and have no recourse other than to be mad because they dont know they are playing wrong, because they play exactly how the game taught them to in lfr, warfronts, and wqs, haphazardly press buttons and eventually you win. Problem is, in normal to some degree and above that isnt how the game works.
You’re left with this divide of players who are disgruntled and unwilling to try higher content again while doing low content for hours farming titanforges until they are the same ilvl as beginner raiders with none of the skills. and on the otherside a rapidly dwindling base of players who cant find skilled replacements for players quitting due to skinner box rng dominating the game, lack of time to commit to the game, and simply growing bored. All of this feeds into itself worsening each problem. The high end players cant fill raid spots of quitters so they quit because they cant do the only content they find fun and challenging, while the lower end players repeatedly find skill based barrier to entry of higher content demoralizing, and frustrating and so they just keep doing wqs and w.e or quit.
Now all that said, im not going to pretend wf/tf is the root of all this but it’s certainly not helping. If you want to push into other problems, you’re gonna have to look at unfulfilling to play classes, the hyper accelerated game pace in a genre built to support long term time investment and payoff, and a myriad of other problems, but those are discussions for another time.
If you read this whole thing sorry for the essay, but i love this game and have played since forever and I just hate to see the state its in these past several years.
Have a wonderful day and I can’t wait for the rage and name calling coming my way likely.
6 Likes
But if you aren’t raiding, what point does all that gear serve? If you aren’t raiding(or the equivalent high mythic+ keys) then gear shouldn’t mean much to you. So why do you need upgrades from world content?
The purpose of gear is to improve stats and performance. If you aren’t raiding(or the equivalent) then I don’t see why you would need that gear. I think that furthers the point everybody is making that people shouldn’t be getting top end raid gear for the easiest forms of content.
1 Like
How many trinkets from wrath and cata were bis for like the whole expansion. This is pretty much how it’s always been
It would be even worse if the average raider had no reason to do that content because there would be 0 chance for an upgrade. Titanforging keeps content relevant and makes it much easier to fill up groups.
Just speaking hypothetical, if WF/TF existed for lower level gear, but like Mythic raiding always 100% had the BiS pieces, would you be satisfied? Even if you don’t do that content?
Yes! A thousand times yes!
Every single one of my concerns with the loot system in this game would be solved if the titanforge cap and base mythic item level were the exact same item level, and titanforge chances were balanced such that anyone doing only content below mythic could expect to get two, maybe three pieces of that item level max in an entire tier, while those regularly clearing the hardest content are able to get it comfortably in every gear slot
The only thing that makes me rage is that you and others can spell this out to the dev team, and all we are going to get is an obtuse response at best.
Please, blues, entertain the idea that the current loot structure is at least potentially a reason people burn out and leave in droves.
Pony up some examples. Otherwise this is just massive hyperbole
Looks like you’re lying your m+ participation seems very lacking and you don’t even have the 2nd 415 azerite piece from Titan Residuum which you should have by now. Not to mention your neck lvl is way behind. You barely put in any effort outside of raid and your gear reflects that
Exactly this. I still remember the thrill of finally getting Lightning Capacitor from old Kara (in BC) as it was an amazing trinket for ele shaman (my main). And beyond that, I remember the feeling of making BiS lists and being excited every time we killed certain bosses that could drop something I really wanted.
These days, I genuinely couldn’t name a single piece of gear I’m wearing as it’s all become meaningless. It’s literally, something drops in my bag, my addon tells me if it’s an upgrade, and generally I’ll sim it too to make sure.
Loot used to be one of the major thrills in this game, now I just don’t care really. Even the other day when I got a 420 weapon off the first boss in mythic (replacing my 385 weapon), it honestly wasn’t that exciting. There’s just too much of it, and it’s too random, rather than something you anticipate and work towards.
Even my alts, one of them is now 379, I’ve literally never stepped foot in raid or anything above a mythic 0 with her. It doesn’t feel good, it just feels stupid that she’s that level…
Uh, none. Probably the closest thing was the Tol Barad tank trinket cause it had an on use resistance buff that was good for some stuff in Firelands. But in DS and ICC nobody was wearing anything from the beginning of the expansion.