Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Oh do people still say cringe?

[Kaurmine-area-52]

Now the bar is moving around

Don’t judge a man by the maneuverability of his bar.

[Urstuugorr-area-52]

Oh do people still say cringe?

haHAA I do.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Don’t judge a man by the maneuverability of his bar.

It just gets hard to talk to people when they always change their story. I just wanna be sure what lie they want me to believe

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

How does it stop you from raiding? It is a game. If you do not think that raiding Mythic is a fun and enjoyable way to spend your time, then THAT is the reason to not be doing it.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

Not with Personal loot - Maybe back then with masterloot and rolling against 40/25 people sure.

But nowadays, you actually get loot from the run almost like 3-4 loot per run.

Do I need to mention Mythic+ or other sources? If there was no TF - You could actually BIS your within a month.

Lol. You know that isn’t true.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

Not with Personal loot - Maybe back then with masterloot and rolling against 40/25 people sure.

But nowadays, you actually get loot from the run almost like 3-4 loot per run.

Do I need to mention Mythic+ or other sources? If there was no TF - You could actually BIS your within a month.

I mean we can’t really pin a date on how long or the average it would take a player to gear up because it’s all done by chance. We had a situation where our warrior went months with a Heroic weapon after a good amount of Taloc kills and got it on our 9th. Which was well over halfway through the tier. So to say you’d have BiS in a month in the current system is just inaccurate.

[Kullimonk-aerie-peak (Kullimonk)]

Seems like a terrible question. Is that to-do fun? Useful? Rewarding?

[Urstuugorr-area-52]

I mean we can’t really pin a date on how long or the average it would take a player to gear up because it’s all done by chance. We had a situation where our warrior went months with a Heroic weapon after a good amount of Taloc kills and got it on our 9th. Which was well over halfway through the tier. So to say you’d have BiS in a month in the current system is just inaccurate

Mhm, true,

But that has nothing to do with TF/WF though… this is a Personal loot issue which means they need to bring back Masterloot for progression guilds.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

Not with Personal loot - Maybe back then with masterloot and rolling against 40/25 people sure.

But nowadays, you actually get loot from the run almost like 3-4 loot per run.

Do I need to mention Mythic+ or other sources? If there was no TF - You could actually BIS your within a month.

Lol. You know that isn’t true.

The loot drop rate part is exaggerated, but there is no denying mythic+, and especially the weekly cache, gears players up to high item levels much faster than pre-Legion.

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

Maybe a toggle in game, like warmode, where you can turn off TF/WF for your character if it makes the game less fun for you, but the people who do like it can still enjoy it.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

The loot drop rate part is exaggerated, but there is no denying mythic+, and especially the weekly cache, gears players up to high item levels much faster than pre-Legion.

I don’t deny that. 3-4 pieces of loot per run, and … that’s someone who needs 17+ slots. So… you probably see the issue here. (Duplicates aside).

Mythic+ is over-rewarding on all fronts. There’s a lot I loathe about WoW’s gear progression, and most of it comes down to how much high-end loot is thrown at ALL players.

For example, 400ivl caches; those have no business existing.
Mythic10 cache/weekly is a joke.
The shear amount of RNG tied to EVERYTHING.

WoW isn’t designed to be about story and progression, it’s just a spreadsheet sandbox with some pixels.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

Mhm, true,

But that has nothing to do with TF/WF though… this is a Personal loot issue which means they need to bring back Masterloot for progression guilds.

Actually it did. Because with the Personal Loot system we couldn’t trade loot because it WF/TF. The issue comes from there really being no path to what you’re doing. You’re just rewarded randomly. Be it from a raid or just doing an Invasion. Which happened to me. I got 385 titanforged boots with good stats for doing an invasion. There was no build up to it, it just happened.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

The loot drop rate part is exaggerated, but there is no denying mythic+, and especially the weekly cache, gears players up to high item levels much faster than pre-Legion.

I don’t deny that. 3-4 pieces of loot per run, and … that’s someone who needs 17+ slots. So… you probably see the issue here. (Duplicates aside).

15 slots with 2 weps, 14 with a 2h. No neck.

Azerite comes ~1 every 2 or 3 weeks on top of everything else and you can target the slot from residium for 415.

So yeah, hitting those last 2-4 slots may be tough.

Also this argument could easily be used in favor of why warfront quest/world boss is not a big deal at all and it’s much less frequent.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

15 slots with 2 weps, 14 with a 2h. No neck.

Azerite comes ~1 every 2 or 3 weeks on top of everything else and you can target the slot from residium for 415.

So yeah, hitting those last 2-4 slots may be tough.

Also this argument could easily be used in favor of why warfront quest/world boss is not a big deal at all and it’s much less frequent.

So yeah. It would take months to get to that point. Which was my point. So, it checks out.

Also, I have no issue with easy content offering good rewards. I have an issue when they aren’t one-time rewards. A zone quest could offer a 425 ring with a socket and Avoidance/Leech. I would have no issues with it, so long as it was the only one of its kind.

I hate the lottery system. Its sapping the fun out of content I would normally enjoy. Killing a boss, that drops X ilvl, and being 10 ilvls over that value…it’s no fun to play against multiple layers of RNG.

[Elynos-sargeras (Elynos)]

So wrong, I would regularly stop playing back in the day cause I was bis and no longer had anything to work for.

[Leatherfoot-rexxar (Leatherfoot)]

I’m trying to understand your history as well as others to see if they have been in other positions and how the rewards worked for them.

I used to raid. Cleared MC, BWL, most of Wrath. I remember being in awe of people in full epics.

The only thing that ever really bothered me was in Wrath, feeling marginalized because we were raiding 10s instead of 25s. 25 dropped better gear, but 10 was arguably more difficult (less forgiving individually).

It was well worth it to me to do my daily dungeon and slowly upgrade gear.

Then a cataclysmic event broke my guild.

Fast forward to Mists and I found myself in LFR. I didn’t mind. I wasn’t keen on finding a guild that I ultimately would only sort of fit in, being on a schedule, anonymously socializing. Kind of over it. I switched to healing because I was burned out. I don’t think I had any issues with gear, except feeling like crafting was too gated by group content.

Did very little in WoD.

Quit for almost a year in Legion for reasons in and out of game.
Came back when flight returned and had a blast.
Never felt more invested in my whole roster of toons. Crafting was just as gated, but it was legendary so I did it. WF/TF happened but really it was all about the legendaries. I did LFR but never gave a thought to other people’s gear. I was way too busy doing so many of my own things on various toons.

One takeaway is I wouldn’t mind losing WF/TF at all if the legendary system made a comeback.

In BfA, I am bored. I should have quit but I wanted
the boat that doesn’t float . I’m jaded about gear. Loss of artifacts, legendaries. AOO might have spoiled me. I used to feel like gearing up to prepare for raiding, even LFR. Now I feel like LFR would be a waste of my time, but I don’t feel incentivized to aim higher. A lot of that is on me, but I feel like the abundance of gear has taken LFR away from me.

Sure I could do LFR instead. But when its release is needlessly delayed for so long, and I can do all kinds of other things to get gear almost every day… I could run LFR and upgrade a ring, I think.

Sorry for the ramble. Hope something is helpful.

[Nokoru-tichondrius]

There isn’t enough fun and engaging things to do, who wants to run the same dungeon on the same character 5050390182912 times, it was always a nice feeling to get your character decked out in bis gear and be able to work on the next one. But I wouldn’t expect a blizzard employee to acknowledge that. That wouldn’t appease the shareholders, because you know, they are the ones who matter.

[Grumcorpse-bleeding-hollow]

That is not the point he was trying to make Bornakk.

The old gearing system was far better as a whole because for one, you could ACTUALLY say “im finally done with gearing for this tier” which meant you could focus on alts/offspecs without feeling like you are missing out on potential main spec loot if the loot would titanforge.

Allowing someone to be selective on bosses so you can bring other people who actually need loot on the bosses you dont need, is also a good thing. If i only need the last 3 bosses in a raid, and there are other people who are being benched, or i have an alt that would benefit more from doing the prior bosses, then why not let the benched player or alt come in for the bosses you dont need?

And if you are going to have the warforge/titanforge system, why have titanforge? what issues does titanforge actually solve that warforge doesnt? I would love to know, because there is a huge agreement that there actually isnt even an issue with warforge. It is titanforging that is so disliked.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

So wrong, I would regularly stop playing back in the day cause I was bis and no longer had anything to work for.

I also know people that do this.