Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Mup-malganis]

Of course.

[Mup-malganis]

I had an item level of 389 before I tried my first Mythic 0, let alone M+. As a tank in the group finder, that’s quite deceptive for those looking for an easy clear that I hadn’t been thru any of the 5-mans yet.

[anon25271113]

That’s a personal problem you’ll have to work out for yourself. Regardless the ilvl of loot that drops it’s still technically progression no matter the mental gymnastic applied to it.

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

On this note, if the LFG tool showed some form of the key completion UI that players have on their mythic+ UI, possibly on mouseover, it could be a better group making indicator than ilvl. That would likely create other sorts of problems and complaints though. The addon for a third party site that I wont mention that tracks m+ has such a mouseover.

[Cilivia-illidan (Cilivia)]

y guildies and I had a discussion about pugging recently actually. We were talking about how the LFG only shows ilvl and how that hardly ever is indicative of the player’s ability (for better or worse). Sure, we could literally just pick at random to fill the slot (and ignore mistakes and help em out), but if we wanna get through the content it in a timely manner, of course we want someone qualified. So in that sense, if you don’t know if that player earned their 400 avg ilvl equivalent, how do you know what they are actually qualified for?

You have raider io for that.

Personally I only try to join guilds PuGs. Yes, it’s slower than “1500+ io score required” groups, but usually people are friendly and don’t mind a mistake here and there

Last night I Lusted in guild pug by error (Too close to Cold Snap). Well, guess what ? We just tried again

Edit : I WILL stay until guild’s call time almost everytime. It doesn’t depend on how well we are doing

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

No… no it doesn’t.

[Totemterror-demon-soul]

We PUG M+ and it’s easily the worst offender in terms of the mismatch between ilvl and qualification for the content. In terms of the ilvl, it was just a hypothetical. I don’t think anyone at this point could achieve 400 avg ilvl just from doing world quests or warfronts. If that exists at all, it has to be a superminority of players. Regarding the raid experience and specific dungeon knowledge, there are people in my raid group who have solid raid experience, but couldn’t tell you what the trash mob abilities are in say SoB. And I know for a fact if those people showed up in LFG and I grabbed them just from looking at their ilvl, I’d be left wondering…

[Lokaa-wyrmrest-accord]

Do you feel that if someone is doing an organized raid for 4ish hours a week they should without question be a higher item level than someone who doesn’t raid but likes to do a variety of different things - often by themself - but plays for 20ish hours a week?

I want the rewards to be equal to the difficulty of the content completed. If you’re talking world quests and gathering, then yes, the person that plays the the more difficult content (raiding) should have a higher item level. It just seems to me like Blizzard is slowly diminishing and reducing the incentives to even participate in the more difficult content, instead it’s a RNG lottery on who gets that sweet titanforged drop.

There should be a cap equal to the next level of difficulty on all titanforging.

I’ve been playing for going on 9 years now with no lapse in my my subscription. I’ve purchased a lot of digital content in my day and have generally enjoyed my time playing over the years. But I have to say, this is the first expansion where I’m seriously considering if the amount of enjoyment I’m getting is even worth a subscription. If my raid’s roster is any indication, I’m not the only one.

Frankly, that makes me sad.

[anon25271113]

Had a famed slayer of g’huun actually ruin our first even on time 10+ freehold because they forgot to get drunk and we had to wait over a minute for them to walk back up to the npc and back while avoiding pats. We failed our first 10 key by 30 seconds.

This was months ago but I remember it like yesterday sometimes lol.

[Azreluna-mannoroth (Azreluna)]

Sure, but it’s not a matter of how much you get. It’s a matter of how many chances you get, and you get more chances doing all the content than just doing the raid content.

[Celyda-stormrage]

I don’t know where you get me attacking your skill. I have no idea nor do I care if you have skill or not. Ilvl doesn’t equal skill! Now enough with the Ali rope a dope!

please explain how that is not on you. Please explain how a 6 ilvl difference makes a boss fight move at a snails pace.

If you would be so kind dear sir.

[Dysheki-sargeras (Dysheki)]

I remember when raids dropped one set of gear. One specific item level. In order to get that high level of gear you had to raid. End of story.

[Cilivia-illidan (Cilivia)]

Regarding the raid experience

Honestlly, I think this point is obsolete. There are so much videos/walk through/help on the net that EVERYONE should be able to understand a fight in 1-2 tries. Then it’s just execution.

I killed normal jaina (Ok, it’s low, but still), just after watching Mythic down by Method.

I was expecting fight of my life, but hey ! P1 you hardly need to move and other “staff” is easy to handle

[Amine-blackwater-raiders (Amine)]

I love how CM like to reply to people who blindly agree with their design decision. How about a change for once and try to address the concerns of people who disagree have?

Why should they reply to people who are verbally aggressive ? Plus most times there is actually absolutely no point in discussing things with someone of an opposite viewpoint because no one changes their minds and it often just results in a bunch of bickering.

[Totemterror-demon-soul]

Raiderio still isn’t a good metric because it assigns points based on completion. You could still have no idea what you are doing and have a good raiderio. Conversely, you can have no raiderio and be a perfectly qualified person to complete the content. Good example of the former, our guild has a player that has an impressive raiderio score. He’s a potato with a high ilvl and no actual understanding of the dungeon mechanics.

As an aside, finalboss has a discussion video of top M+ players that think raiderio is a terrible metric.

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

Bornakk has actually asked pretty good questions of people who disagree with the design to try and understand their position.

[Felpooti-echo-isles]

Well, yeah. But what is a better one?

[Steve-bleeding-hollow (Steve)]

I have a few times haha, pugging is strange it’s hard to find anything that can help find qualified people. I don’t mean so much in a ilvl sense but in a sense like you could throw me all the numbers in the world (raid io, best key ran, general score, ect) but even then the key might still be a dumpster fire. For the moment I focus more on team composition and make sure they are in the ballpark ilvl to do the place with some competence, but it’s interesting to think about the practical value of stats.

[Nokoru-tichondrius]

of course you say that, you’re supposed to say that, no matter if you agree with it or not. I know blizz employees that have said that on the forums to save face with the company but irl they absolutely hate the system. You guys need to stop with the crap.

[Jcôn-aerie-peak]

How about you build your own game so you can make the loot rules the way you like. Of course that’s not going to happen. So instead of being bitter all the time about things you dislike while many others do, how about learn to have fun with things the way they are.