Titanforging and Warforging make me upset

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Come on with the terrible responses. People have said multiple times why they believe capping would be beneficial. Let’s not play the why? game like we are 3 yr old children.

I have explained why it is not bad, so again, I ask why? Why do you resort to name calling?

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

I like how you keep posting things out of context. You did it with a very blatant misunderstanding of a gamasutra article about game design when they explicitly said “hey don’t make this common mistake!” right at the end. And now you’re doing it with Blizzard who refers to the implementation of forging in 5.2 Literally 3 expansions ago. Particularly when we have developers who talk about the intent of forging today in this expansion. How does what forging was intended to do back then matter in context of this discussion? It’s changed, both in intent and function. Yes, individuals receive tiny power bumps from forging by repeat killing the bosses they can do. This allows groups they are part of to progress past bosses they might be stuck at. But this happens anyways without forging and the impact is far more meaningful from just base ilvl drops towards that end. Forging does add a tiny bit to that existing effect, sure. But the goal of forging today, as explained by Ion, is to ensure that individuals always have a chance at an upgrade and thus don’t stop doing current content because they’ve capped out. That’s what Blizzard told us it’s supposed to be now. But if you need to take information out of context from 2013, 6 years ago, be my guest lol

The post he linked was a section out of the 2018 Blizzcon Q & A. That seems to be pretty relevant to today. Unless of course you live in 2024 and hence the out of context 6 years ago statement.
Perhaps some fact checking is in order before you rail off about something.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Come on with the terrible responses. People have said multiple times why they believe capping would be beneficial. Let’s not play the why? game like we are 3 yr old children.

I have explained why it is not bad, so again, I ask why? Why do you resort to name calling?

Your opinion that it is not bad does not invalidate others opinions that it could use restrictions So their statement and views on why capping it at +15 would be beneficial are still valid making your comment irrelevant.

Heck Blizzard themselves realised that it needs restrictions, hence why weapons can no longer titanforge and azerite is incapable of upgrading at all.
To quote the Blizzcon 2018 Q & A on warforging and Titanforging, Blizzard made this statement about Legion and I quote “We used to see players who felt obligated to run content they’d outgeared just for a chance at lucky upgrades…”

There was no name calling in my post.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Your opinion that it is not bad does not invalidate others opinions that it could use restrictions So their statement and views on why capping it at +15 would be beneficial are still valid making your comment irrelevant.

Sorry, that is not how it works… I can validly ask someone why they think a random cap would be good. So far, your comments are irrelevant.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Your opinion that it is not bad does not invalidate others opinions that it could use restrictions So their statement and views on why capping it at +15 would be beneficial are still valid making your comment irrelevant.

Sorry, that is not how it works… I can validly ask someone why they think a random cap would be good. So far, your comments are irrelevant.

Making the statement and re-asking a question that has already been answered is claiming that their initial reasonings given for the question are invalid.
Since you have no right to invalidate their initial reasonings based solely off your opposing ones you cannot ask them to restate a new reason as to “Why?”.
It’s an irrelevant comment as they have already answered the question previously, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Making the statement and re-asking a question that has already been answered is claiming that their initial reasonings given for the question are invalid.

Wrong again, but thanks for trying.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Making the statement and re-asking a question that has already been answered is claiming that their initial reasonings given for the question are invalid.

Wrong again, but thanks for trying.

Why?

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Why?

Same reason you said you didn’t use any name calling.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

You’ve explained why you don’t think it’s a bad design. You’ve said your peace. Let others state their opinions and move on with your life.

You act like “because I said so” is enough of an argument to necessitate people changing their minds. Just because they disagree with you doesn’t mean something is wrong.

[Zeusgodofsky-thrall (Zeusgodofsky)]

I agree caping it at +15 is boring happy blizzard doesn’t listen to the 1% that is the forums.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

You act like “because I said so” is enough of an argument to necessitate people changing their minds. Just because they disagree with you doesn’t mean something is wrong.

Nope, in this particular case I just asked someone why they thought a random cap was good or beneficial.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Blizzard already stated they liked it.

I have yet to see them justify extreme Titanforging. In Legion, it made sense because of their philosophy for “big random drops.” It was supported through legendary items.

BFA does not claim that design philosophy in the slightest.

Titanforging is fine and they like the system in general. Extreme Titanforging is not something they’ve spoken on – aside from actually saying they’re going to reduce the chance of seeing it – meaning they weren’t okay with it in some sense.

Their justification is simply “it doesn’t happen often enough, and it’s just one piece of gear” according to their Q & A panel in 2018.
Although to be honest, I find that justification rather lacking.

Could you imagine if health and safety took that approach?

There’s a difference between +15 and +30 and +60 yet. It’s clear what I’m referring too. I want a +15 cap, so +20 would be considered extreme.

Yeah, I realize you consider it extreme, but that doesn’t mean Blizzard does.

As above, Blizzard has stated that extreme Titanforging can occur and undermines Mythic (realistically everything up to) content.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

As above, Blizzard has stated that extreme Titanforging can occur and undermines Mythic (realistically everything up to) content.

So, this is why they capped it at 425? Also, give me a link to the Q&A that you are referring to, so I can see where they mentioned “extreme”.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

So, this is why they capped it at 425? Also, give me a link to the Q&A that you are referring to, so I can see where they mentioned “extreme”.

“Extreme” is simply the jump from base to whatever it lands on. +5 isn’t extreme. But +50 would certainly be considered an extreme jump.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

@Orctang-area-52

@Haavi-barthilas

As above, Blizzard has stated that extreme Titanforging can occur and undermines Mythic (realistically everything up to) content.

So, this is why they capped it at 425? Also, give me a link to the Q&A that you are referring to, so I can see where they mentioned “extreme”.

Below is the link.

BlizzCon Q&A Additional Questions - WoW

Alongside the use of the term “extreme Titanforging”

Edit: Quote “We restrict the ability of pieces like weapons or Azerite armor to Titanforge, and we’ve reduced the chance of extreme Titanforging in BfA”

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

It was a section out of the 2018 Blizzcon Q&A that explicitly stated that that was how forging started and the statement ended with saying that it evolved into what it is today from that. Context matters. That’s something people on your side of the fence are particularly bad at.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Thanks. So, they eliminated the need to re-run content to fish for Titanforges is what they stated.

“We used to see players who felt obligated to run content they’d outgeared just for a chance at lucky upgrades, and we now see far less of this behavior.”

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

It was a section out of the 2018 Blizzcon Q&A that explicitly stated that that was how forging started and the statement ended with saying that it evolved into what it is today from that. Context matters. That’s something people on your side of the fence are particularly bad at.

The original statement is about design philosophy and the final statement was about system implementation. They are two completely separate things.
The post did not once state that their philosophy on WF/TF has changed in any way. That was something your inferred about the post.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Thanks. So, they eliminated the need to re-run content to fish for Titanforges is what they stated.

“We used to see players who felt obligated to run content they’d outgeared just for a chance at lucky upgrades, and we now see far less of this behavior.”

Actually they stated that they reduced the behaviour of re-running content to fish for Titanforging, not eliminated it. They are two different statements.

But yes, reducing chances and adding limits on WF/TF does reduce the negative behaviour of re-running content to fish for titanforges.

Should the behaviour continue to be construed as being negative, it is possible that more restrictions will be put in place to continue to make the system more healthy.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Actually they stated that they reduced the behaviour of re-running content to fish for Titanforging, not eliminated it. They are two different statements.

Basically they reduced it to the point of irrelevance.