I’ve never looked at a casino and thought “Wow, what a pinnacle of ethical business!”
They’re right there with cigarette companies. Taking advantage of humans too dumb or addicted to make the correct choice to avoid the habit. Normally I don’t care if a company takes advantage like that (even though I still don’t think it’s ethical), but when something I love morphs into something I normally stay away from and I can’t easily replace that thing, I get upset.
If they are so rare then there’s no issue with keeping them then?? As for a cap then all that means is they will quit when their progress is stopped. Because we all know that the community will never reach out and make any higher level content accessible to them. Unlimited McForging, with the rarity you already mentioned, gives them a continuing progression path. And even with unlimited forges they will never out gear even a normal raider. This will keep them subbed/playing, where otherwise they would quit when they would inevitably bump up against the cap you suggest. I know that because I am a filthy casual, and after repeatedly being declined trying to get into Normal pugs both Legion and BfA I don’t even waste my time. Even M0 is difficult, during the last dungeon weekly it took me an average of 15 minutes to get into M0s for the quest, and that was at 375 ilevel. With today’s community the only way to retain casuals and our money is to allow us a progression path that is not controlled by the community and isn’t capped.
Of course you can,you can always move on and play another game instead,Final Fantasy 14,ESO and many other MMOrpgs ext…
1: If you’re not interested in high end content, why do you want high end gear?
2: Plenty of people can find a group in spite of a low ilvl if they are smart about it. You likely won’t land a 10 at 375, but building up from lower keys is doable.
3: PARAGRAPHS.
Has anyone ever thought…
Maybe if “casuals” do get good gear from forging, that they may consider running end content? They may think… “Well, I typically don’t queue for LFR because I am a bit intimidated and don’t think my gear is very good. But since I have a few high level pieces through forging (yay me), I am willing to give it a shot”
Have you thought of that?
oh, and then they catch the bug for raiding. They join a raiding guild and start taking down bosses in record time. Before you know it, they are doing Mythic raiding and when the next tier comes out, they convince their guild members to try for a World-First… THEN, they get real close but lose out to Method, but they keep going and that young casual turns in to the world’s best raid leader and finally surpasses Method for all World Firsts going forward… and the guild is named, Methodical! Whaaaaaaa???
All because he got a piece of warforged gear for sealing azurite fissures one day!
You don’t need 425 gear to run normal BoD, and normal BoD gear is all you need for heroic, which is all you need to prog mythic.
You just want free loot for no work.
Progression is the name of the game. Better gear makes everything faster and easier and may possibly enable me to snag a chance at what you call real content. Mythic players say skill > gear, so why do they need gear either?? Shouldn’t their skill increase suffice??
I wasn’t trying to get into a +10, I was talking about how difficult it was trying to get into a +0, on a week when there were more potential groups than normal due to the weeklyweekly quest. It’s exponentially harder on any other week. And before you say “start your own group”, nobody should be subjected to a group lead by me.
Paragraphs?? I’m an engineer, what are these mysterious paragraph thingys??
The in this particular example, the counter logic is that cap on how high something can forge would make your progression cap take longer to hit. If I can accelerate my progression with a TF/WF piece of loot that invalidate loot from mythic, then I loose content and there is less for me to do later. Gear isn’t the magic solution to accessing higher difficulty content, it helps but improving as a player and learning the mechanics and how to be efficient is how that gets accessed.
McForging as a standalone progression path isn’t a sustainable model. Say you have a full set of base ilvl loot - using 1 run of M+ or ~2 raid bosses with bonus rolls as an example, say you have a 30% chance from any kill for loot, and theres a 10% chance of it forging and theres a 30% chance of it being/forging into something you can actually use (arbitrary %'s based on feel/anecdote). This would be a 1% chance at any given time for an upgrade, you’d have to do 69 M+ runs or 138 raid bosses for a 50/50 chance at an upgrade. That’s a lot of play time, if you don’t burn out on that more power to you but I sure as hell do and I tend to stop playing when I get close enough to a base ilvl set where a forge is the only possible upgrade.
That’s a you problem. I got my fresh questing green character in one that week within an hour of capping.
Those things you had to take english classes to learn in every school you’ve attended.
I have tried them all.
ESO? No 2h paladin class capable of doing top tier (50k+) damage.
FF? Slower gameplay than wow and still no DPS paladin-esq class with a big 2h.
GW2 was great for a while, but no real raid end-game on-par with wow. Just a bunch of pointless overland content.
Everything else basically lacks one of my major qualifiers:
-MUST have 2h holy zealot class with heavy armor capable of being DPS
-MUST have competitive cooperative PVE like raid
-MUST have minimal grind aspects and lack of casino
Trust me. if it existed, I’d be on it right now. Wow get’s a “pass” on the last one because I’m already here and it offers the best of the other two.
But you need way higher than normal Bod gear to get into most pugs unless you have a guild, which most casuals don’t. So until the community starts reaching out, blizzard needs to throw us casuals some sort of carrot.
Warforged/Titanforged has definitely change the game and my view of it. If you look at this character in the armour you’ll notice I am only wearing 1 item I got from a raid (heroic BoD), yet I am ilvl 410. This is an ilvl more indicative of someone that is 6-8/9 into mythic BoD, yet here I am, not even with a heroic Jaina kill yet.
My change in view is this:
Vanilla - only way to get high ilvl is do the highest end content.
BfA - best way to increase odds of getting high ilvl is run the highest end content.
What I mean by this is mythic raiding gives ilvl 415, requiring 2 chances to get to the ilvl cap of 425.
Heroic/M10+/weekly cache/emissaries/warfronts give ilvl 400, requiring 5 chances to get to the ilvl cap of 425.
Its all about odds. Do mythic and you have better odds of getting high lvl gear. Do everything else and you still have a chance at getting high lvl gear, but just at worst odds. There is one caveat though, in that you can only kill a mythic boss once per week vs run an M10+ as many times as you want per week. So you can gamble once with the best odds, or as many times as you like with lesser odds.
And look at me. This is what you can get by casually running M+ multiple times vs participating in mythic raiding (parity). As an old school raider from the MC days of vanilla, I am not sure what to think of this. On the one hand its a weird gambling ring wherein it looks like I do the hardest content, but I don’t, and on the other hand I can have some control over the progression of my character without having to kill 9 mythic bosses per week (and subsequently be left with nothing to do for the rest of the week.)
Full disclosure: I wouldn’t run M+ if there was no chance at titanforging. Remove the chance at character progression and you remove the interest in the content.
First of all: no you don’t. Persistance goes a long way.
Second, they can join a raiding guild if they really want to raid and lack the ability to squirm into a pug.
Lastly, You realize TF contributed to this ilvl problem, right? Getting 390 is a joke right now.
I just wanted to touch on this because it’s an interesting statistic. Using data from Warcraft logs (IIRC):
This is the evidence that skill>gear. Players who participate in mythic need less gear relative to the base ilvl that drops to get a kill.
The “engineer” is basically trying to argue that since it’s a gear-progression based game, that just handing out mythic titanforged gear and heroic ilvl loot from weeklies is a good thing.
Nevermind the damage that does to long-term engagement or anything like that.
No wonder the Exodar crashed.
I apply my time into the game as well — the joy of something bunping up is great — keeps me playing
Thought the 3rd 400lvl cloak in a row makes me wanna quit
Wouldn’t a profession system that lets you craft really good gear be more fulfilling than randomness layered upon luck?
Wouldn’t you like a really good drop to remain great-to-okay the rest of the expac without refarming it with next patch?
Think you’re confusing relief for joy. Loot’s too random and it’s obsolete too quickly. None of it is unique and all of it is irrelevant in a few months.
Rewards and gear progression are more-or-less the same. A little RNG is okay. My “grand plan” for revamping these systems include:
This should significantly limit the potential power spikes on gear.
As for gear progression:
That is simply not what I think.
As explained.
I find it incredibly difficult to hold a discussion when you constantly disregard the words being written.
“Why not remove McForging” wasn’t something I was asserting but a response to your general idea that solo players should over time be able to obtain an ilvl comparable to normal raiders.
To which I questioned, why was McForging a necessary component to that end?
I don’t believe McForging is necessary to achieve that result.
Know what really feels bad? Figuring out an item you really need is coming from the next boss you’re about to fight but the way loot works now since you just got a piece from the boss you just killed you get nothing from the next boss. Oh and then you roll a coin to hopefully get that item but get 500 AP instead (which at this point isn’t even a drop in the bucket).
Please just talk to the team that designs and regulates the reward/progression structure in WoW about doing a complete overhaul because seeing 5x rings, or cloaks, or whatever of the same item drop from 1 boss and then getting locked out of possibly getting loot from the next is extremely disheartening and unenjoyable. I’m sure you already know how bad the AP system is now, so I won’t even get into that but it needs a major overhaul as well.