I didn’t imply which side of the debate was which.
Surely you don’t believe your side was the one that offered points and reasoning then?
Or of course you could provide links.
Do you think we don’t know which side of the debate you’re on? Are you going to pretend you think the side arguing against forging is the one you were talking about?
1 Like
Assumptions, how do you know that my belief of the design hasn’t changed?
Perhaps I am now on the fence and was looking at the thread objectively instead of subjectively.
Because you just posted in the other thread complaining about getting a forged upgrade? LOL
"Another 410 titanforge from an embassy quest. Feeling really good about having nothing to look forward to in Heroic "
1 Like
Feeling really good? That doesn’t sound negative to me? Plus that post was over 7 hours ago.
That’s more than 500 posts into this thread that could potentially sway my opinion.
I’m just going to report and move on. You’re intentionally trolling.
1 Like
Now you have the right to determine my intentions and report me for your opinion of it?
I don’t believe my posts were inflammatory, or upsetting, and they certainly weren’t extraneous as they were directly responding to your initial comments.
5 Likes
I appreciate the CMs actually, you know, talking with us on this one, but I dislike how argumentative he’s being.
Doesn’t really seem willing to listen, twists the arguments… I don’t like it.
3 Likes
Could not have articulated my sentiments better sir.
How is a discussion about titanforging supposed to be anything but opinion?
Every negative or positive about the system can be flipped around based on a person’s perspective.
The only thing that really matters is if it affects subscriptions positively or negatively, but figuring that out would be nigh impossible since BfA is a dumpster fire for many reasons.
1 Like
i like being heard, but i also like being listened to. not just cherry pick the easy arguments to work on and ignore the rest
2 Likes
I agree it’s all opinion based. I was simply stating that that fact is no reason to dismiss all opposing arguments with blank statements while not actually refuting or supporting an opposing argument which a lot of this thread devolved into.
And it’s not necessarily one side either. Both stances on the argument have at times taken a similar approach.
I just believe that it makes more sense to discuss opinions rather than who’s opinions are able to be objectively proved with empirical data (hint none are)
To quote Carl Sagan “The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence”
If you can’t bring yourself to agree to something as basic as what an average is.
This discussion is not capable of moving forward.
This isn’t said to argue a point but establish an acceptable fact.
Some players receive more than the average amount and degree of McForges.
While other players receive less than the average amount and degree of McForges.
This is how the system works.
You are not reading what is being written.
And just jumping straight into making asinine judgments about poster’s views. It’s just insulting.
Under rewarding?
I never claimed McForging under rewarded players. I don’t think anyone has even used the phrase “under reward” in this thread other than you…
Actually write what I mean?
How about you put in some effort and read what people write.
Especially, when you plan to respond with “You didn’t say system” when it’s in the very section you quoted from…
Bloody heck, it’s like talking to a child.
Absolutely mad.
“I’m going to ignore the things you’ve written, and just pretend you have no reason to dislike the system you are offering criticism”
As if the last two posts didn’t provide concise but detailed explanation as to what I viewed as issues concerning McForging.
6 Likes
I’d say you’re missing the point, but I don’t think you are. I think you’re intentionally ignoring it.
Up until you made the point in that post about “Casuals” don’t need everything spoon-fed to them, I respect them more than that. I had absolutely nothing to respond to. You have an opinion. You presented that opinion. It was clear, concise. And then you tacked that on, why? You describe the gear system as “spoon-fed” (an insultive emotional appeal) and simultaneously tout that you respect casuals too much. That’s not respect. In that moment you’re being condescending and insultive.
We’ve had many people that consider themselves casuals come in and explain why they like the current system. They get drowned out and insulted by you (and people like you) who tell them that they’re wrong, describe gameplay they like as “spoon fed” or “welfare epics”. You’re a mini version of, “you think you do, but you don’t!” I didn’t know condescending and being insulting to people you disagree with was respect.
You’re not fooling anyone. You’re here advocating a change to the status quo because it suits your interests. Because you certainly aren’t an advocate for people who play WoW casually and pretending it’s in their best interest is a joke at best.
1 Like
Where did I dispute what an average is? I addressed outliers. I addressed perception of forging. Hell, your entire diatribe is contrived rage at trivial and insignificant things that you intentionally take out of context. If there was confusion about a point instead of clarifying it you write a paragraph trying to insult me and then don’t even clarify what your point was. That pretty clearly demonstrates what your motives are. It’s not to engage in a dialogue.
I’m sorry, where in that rant about world quests did you say Emissaries? Oh, that’s right, you didn’t. But it’s cool. You go ahead and quote WQ system 5 times over, underline it, highlight it, and pretend that means anything at all. If you meant Emissary rewards you could have just typed that. You didn’t. It caused confusion. That’s on you, not me. And instead of saying, “oh yeah, you’re right, that’s what I was trying to say” you go on a diatribe about it.
If you’re going to flip out about me not reading what you wrote you might want to try to take some of your own advice. I didn’t ask you why you didn’t like forging. I asked you why you think that it should be removed because you don’t like it. It’s a nuanced difference. I didn’t disregard your posts detailing why you don’t like forging, they simply had absolutely nothing to do with my question. Care to try again?
1 Like
Find me that post where I insulted casuals players. Spoon-feeding implies the system is babying them – something I find insulting. Welfare epics are exactly that – hand-outs. Warfont caches containing 400 ilvl gear is an example of a welfare epic. It’s a reward that isn’t justified by level of effort and difficulty compared to other 400 item level sources.
“Respecting them too much” – of course. I think they’re perfectly capable of enjoying the game without being spoon-fed welfare epics to keep them paying each month. They should have a plentiful amount of content that fits a wide range of players.
Trying to keep them subbed by offering amazing rewards instead of offering them amazing content – Yes, I find that insulting. They deserve more content that’s focused on making their endgame enjoyable. Giving them 400 gear just makes the World Quests drops they’ve been hoping for less desirable. Giving them huge Titanforges once an expansion… does what for them? Nothing? It’s nice to get, but what’s the point? Make the content even easier than before? You’ll fall straight into the trap that made leveling incredibly boring.
WoW doesn’t need to baby its largest group of players. They aren’t scrubs. They just play for fun. Getting gear clearly isn’t their endgame (if they wanted better gear, they should go into Mythic+ and Raids, ya?). The rewards system should reflect that. Titanforging (big bonuses) does not reflect that. It’s too rare to have an impact. So instead, they keep them paying with a couple huge items each months – items that instantly devalue their preferred content.
And that, in my opinion, is stupid.
11 Likes
This. God so much this…
2 Likes
Cata heroics and Ghostcrawler leaving beg to differ, WOW playerbase have always been garbage.
I guess the whole discussion is lost on you then.
Detailing what you like and don’t like about the system is the whole point.
There is no nuance to your question. You are just assuming the answer, in the asking.
“I asked you why you think it should be removed because you don’t like it.”
That simply is not what I think.
I think McForging largely undermines the game’s base reward structure.
I believe an ilvl 380 item coming out of a random Heroic Dungeon should not be possible.
Is removal of the system required to address those issues?
Clearly, those issues can be addressed in ways other than removal.
Such as with a cap or limitations, much like the original implementation of Thunderforging.
I think I was pretty clear. When you refer to the systems that way you’re not just insulting the system. You’re insulting everyone who likes the system.
That says everything that needs be said. Try taking the blue advice we were given. Stop talking about what makes the game less enjoyable for other people. Stop talking about what is insulting to them. Stop talking about what makes the game boring for them. You speak for you. Just you. No one else. And every single casual player who tried to express otherwise you and your ilk spam posted/insulted them out of the thread. There are dozens and dozens of examples of this right here in this thread.
2 Likes