It’s not really about esports. Mythic raiders are usually competitive by nature and they have to be in order to stay current and keep their raid spot.
In previous expansions, near the end of a tier, most people were near BiS, so there were not a ton of variables in terms of parsing. In short, the people that had the 100th percentile parses were generally the people who played the fight the best, not the people who were the luckiest with forges/sockets.
It is about esports if you truly want to know who is best. I assume you mean previous expansions before Legion since you weren’t specific.
While you asked the player you quoted about being when they sound like they’re speaking for others, on the other hand, you yourself are putting forward your personal experience in a way that sounds like you’re speaking for the masses too.
This is the problem with wow’s feedback system, where CMs and their opinions on things usually muddy the waters on feedback being given from multiple viewpoints.
I’m not saying its always the case, but when it comes to this particular forum thread, it sure seems like it.
WF/TF really have no place in the game anymore. While yes they do provide the occasional “wow i won the loot lottery” feeling, more often than not they end up doing the extreme opposite, of making non WF/TF loot leave a bad taste in your mouth. Unless you as a CM can see this POV, this feedback thread is pointless, cuz otherwise you’re just going to see things from your POV and consider everything else irrelevant, regardless of your repetitive “i’m here and i’m listening” posts.
To end it, what I said about WF/TF are my own opinions. Have the decency not to outright bury them with your personal experience, because my experience is also as important to me as yours is to you. The idea is to meet in the middle.
The problem is, for myself and people with similar mentality, that you want to parse well or (in the case of some classes, like spriest) have the right stats to make the spec feel right. So if we look at raid gear, there are not many ideal pieces… at all. some pieces have at least one of both stats I desire yes, and you can work around that. But for some people who don’t have the time to spend hours farming non raid content (M+ in this example) to target a specific piece it can kinda suck.
Like I get to an extent the philosophy right? Obviously M+ gear needs to sort of stay relevant so making raid gear have the same stat combos on them could cancel out an entire section of getting gear; maybe just a touch more variety on stats in raid would be nice.
ALSO, can we please get a crit haste staff that is not a random world drop or HAS to come from warfront quest in order to be good. I want my staff mogs back 
Totally agree with this except I think WF/TF are a pretty minor issue in comparison to emissary rewards or warfronts (and maybe conquest rewards?? that one’s tough). If you at least had to enter dungeons or raids to get gear above 355 in the current season, it could go most of the way to solving these problems.
From Blizzard’s perspective I get the idea they are overly-concerned with the work required to gear up an alt to jump into the latest raid? I have never understood why this is so much more important than having a real progression path.
You can be a troll and post comments like this all you want, facts prove the game is dying. If you want to hide behind a trash 103 to troll that’s fine, but at least have the gall to post on a real toon if you want to be taken seriously.
I just did a darkshore warfront and I received a 420 bracer. At this point is this the direction the game should go? I have a lot of doubt about this.
If Blizzard is concerned with mythic +, raiders and high ranked PVP players creating a huge gear gap and barrier for new or casual players there are other ways to tackle that gear stratification.
Besides players always find ways to discriminate from players for grouping activities (eg gear scores, DPS scores, PVP rating, etc).
Blizzard trying to use RNG gear parity to police player and community behavior doesn’t work. Sure there will be players hostile to lower geared players for group and PVP content. But it is their choice as well with whom they play the game with and group with. You can’t force them to play with players not on their skill level.
That is why handing out gear like candy has many unseen circumstances as this thread highlights.
I don’t know why they are doing this, but I highly doubt it is because current WoW isn’t doing well.
My guess, if I had to take one… would be that they know the original game has morphed in to so many things over the years that it might be fun to go back and play the original version to experience the difference!
What causes me to believe what I said is the fact that they were pushing back so hard. Especially with the well known “you think you do” meme from Blizzcon.
Certainly possible! Although I would hate to see it suffer, I am still enjoying the game. Probably because I don’t play for the latest content exclusively. I am usually all over all of the worlds during my play time. Well, I do avoid Cata like the plague…
I understand that certain people are very focused on perfectly itemized gear. I have done that in the past as well but it isn’t what I personally worry about these days. If I get something equivalent then I’m happy and can move on to continue playing things that I want to play - side note that I have always enjoyed World Quests so maybe that’s part of why I’m so easy going with that area.
In regards to trinkets, I just expect to be using the Darkmoon Faire one for a year, I didn’t know other trinkets dropped/existed (this sentence is a joke).
(I’m going to provide some context on where I’m coming from and then get to the point at the end)
This is my main to whatever extent is possible as a DPS but my guild stopped raiding a few years ago as people have moved on to more serious guilds or more serious lives. So I’ve been playing solo for a few years pugging everything I do. I really don’t play on a consistent schedule so a guild is not a viable option.
I probably play around 10-20 hours a week between this character and/or my tank and most of my time is spent trying to keep pace with the baseline gear/AP people seem to have with the goal of trying to do more challenging M+ or maybe spend more time in BoD supposing I can find a normal mode pug. Ironically I don’t even need any gear from normal BoD on either character and haven’t killed more than 3 bosses. All of the gear I have from BoD is from weekly quest rewards like TW and the mythic dungeon quests.
Since WoD I’ve aspired to get AoTC in each raid through this same playstyle (with a couple breaks around antorus and more recently in december-january with uldir). The first time I achieved that in HFC actually felt great, and has probably had me more engaged in the game than I was when my guild actually raided since I can play on my own schedule. I generally at least make good progress in the heroic raid but haven’t had the patience to pug the final boss a couple times (KJ, G’huun).
In BFA I’ve tried to put more effort into M+ with pretty limited success. I haven’t done a +10 yet, but I’d love to. I can’t honestly say I’ve put the work in to participate in a +10 in either S1 or S2 though. Right now it feels like I need to get +6 or +7 in time on every dungeon before spending more time at or above +7 with the third affix. The main barrier here is actually getting invited to groups, so the point of getting the dungeons in time would be to have a reasonably respectable raider IO profile while the point of being at +7 specifically is that it’s where I start to actually get gear upgrades. I’ve run my own key a few times, but it generally feels like a waste of time to wait for a tank or healer to apply relative to looking for groups that already have a tank or healer.
How do WF/TF affect me? Day to day, yes it makes it more likely that I can get invited to participate in the content I aspire to to participate in (M+10, heroic raid). I don’t think I am entitled to participate in that content, but I love that the game is in a state where I can reasonably find pugs for it and as long as I’ve invested some effort. It seems like I’ve been able to be successful at doing that in the past.
My concern with WF/TF has more to do with the fact that I actually wouldn’t mind if the normal mode raid or maybe M+5 were closer to what my endgame consisted of. The reason I care about the heroic raid and M+7-10 is because those are where I can expect to actually get upgrades. WF/TF are not the only problem in this regard but they exacerbate the issue. It’s really frustrating to me that I’ve barely touched the new raid and already easily over-gear it on both of my 120 characters. And fwiw I won’t even get an achievement when I do clear it on normal because I’ll get that from LFR lol.
Im actually a player on your same level, im 3/9 on mythic too can check my Grong Achievment.
So how do i put no time in it? I work toward my gear goals and even having the chance of my goals getting even better is what i love.
What’s wrong with that? I really fail to understand what’s so wrong that if i working it, the prize can become even better.
Is it really a joke though? The only thing funny about trinkets is how pathetic 99% of them are.
I have a 420 Grong’s Primal Rage that is unusable garbage over my 400 trinkets, it was even unusable over the 385s I started this tier with.
Also thanks to the wonderful WoW personal loot system I was unable to trade it to the UH DK in my guild who it was a massive upgrade for.
How competitive is the content that you typically participate in? This statement sounds like you feel gear is more of a given, or an afterthought.
Thing is there are still players that are still in the mindset of wanting perfectly itemized gear. Which the current system doesn’t really support in my opinion.
It’s not even about not being able to get BiS, i think that argument is a red herring.
I just don’t enjoy another layer of slot machine added to a game that revolves around RNG. It’s poor game design, and is shallow psychologically addicting “woo hoo ilvl upgrade”, which muddies the reward structure. I miss when the game had long grinds and time investments to earn powerful gear. Now it’s just about proccing WF/TF on an item that hopefully isn’t crap. It’s a slot machine within a slot machine, and the original game was fine the way it was.
I’d like to point out that “Oh, well I experience the feature and go about me business” is in no way an argument in support of the feature or a refutation of the criticisms of the feature, which is why people are expressing they don’t feel listened to because the blue is not addressing the inherent problems.
Perfectly itemized gaer is BIS, titanforged gear with extra gem slot. But no one in this thread is asking this.
What people are asking for is for gear to be relevant in the content they are doing.
Blizzard should get into politics. Entire community trashes bad system, blizzard finds ways to defend it that hardly anyone agrees with and presents them as majority opinion.
Warforge/titanforge gearing system works in diablo because gear rains down on you. But trying to copy that into WoW fails because gearing should feel powerful and relevant to the content you are doing. The content you do in WoW varies far more than diablo.
Porting a gearing system from a MMO like Diablo into a MMORPG like WoW simply does not work. This is because Diablo is not designed with a MMORPG mindset but a MMO mindset.