Raids do get condensed from 40man to 25man. If you’re stacking 10 rogues now, yes, you’re obviously gonna get cut to probably 2-3 at the absolute most imo. If only one rogue then that probably means people are rerolling classes and not alot are playing rogue as a main.
I played TBC back in the day and I played almost solely for arena. I came into raids with full S3/S4 and weapons and only played Sub. I competed for the top dps spot in BT on more than one encounter. If I remember correctly we had one other rogue in the raid and he was full PvE and he’d also compete for top spot sometimes.
I’m not sure I find that argument persuasive. If you like two jobs equally well but one pays much more than the other, it’s not strange for you to pick the high-paying one. People can care about both how fun the class is to play and how well it clears content.
Well, perhaps it doesn’t matter; after all, I don’t really disagree that people care more about power than about the joy of pressing the buttons.
Using your analogy, most people would choose a higher paying job over a job they enjoy.
Yes, if both jobs are equally enjoyable, the higher paying one gets preference, but if the pay for a job they generally dislike is double or triple that, they’ll gladly sacrifice their enjoyment for the greater reward.
The same is true of the class choices people make. It doesn’t matter if it’s the more boring and/or unappealing spec in the game. The numbers almost perfectly reflect their output: the most played classes/specs are the ones that do the most damage.
Even though Feral does more DPS than some specs when played properly, it is far less commonly played.
Because its easy and this is also true in retail. They don’t always go for the peak DPS class, but instead they go for the classes that produce great damage without the need to play as well allowing their peak group raid parses to be higher consistently.
This does not make them the best players, it makes them the most willing to cheese the game for the sake of “numbers”
Because most players seem to care more about numbers than what’s fun or enjoyable.
Literally no content existed that could not be done with the classes and specs presented by the game regardless of what version of WoW it was from Vanilla to Retail.
Trouble is, ZugZugs will zugzug, and so many of the present Warrior mains will re-roll hunter / warlock because its easy and produces the easiest DPS.
However for those of us who actually like playing Melee, there is no reason to actually re-roll.
No, you didn’t. Balance is easy, yet almost no one plays it.
Yeah, that’s what I said…
The problem is you’re applying your own definition of fun and enjoyable to other people. To many people, the bigger numbers are what’s fun and enjoyable. They’re willing to play a spec that isn’t really all that engaging to play because they are more interested in – and derive more enjoyment from – their performance.
Speaking from first hand experience from dealing with them, a bunch of the zugzug Warriors think they’ll go into TBC able to play Fury, blissfully unaware of how terrible a spec it is and how unforgiving the content is to melee on top of that.
The people who started as Warrior think they’re staying Warrior. The people who rerolled Warrior might then reroll Hunter or Warlock, but not until after speedrun guilds start stacking them.
Except for the fact the raid sizes are nearly cut in half, lower DPS, mechanics that favor ranged, pressure on raid leaders to optimize their raids, etc.
In otherwords, ignore the 2 years of TBC raiding with a year of it spent as a rogue and make a crazily powerful simC tool? No thanks.
DPS values will change slightly from TBC classic to what they were but speaking from experience, Meelee isn’t that bad.
I’ve seen logs from private servers and they do back up what you say but there is alot of variance on a fight by fight basis and thanks to my doubts on how well private servers maintain the accuracy of data they have to be taken with a grain of salt.
You may be surprised with just how well thought out and accurate and “cookie cutter” TBC actually was when it was “Retail”.
We had it within 98% easily for peak efficiency, the only real difference between then and now is the level of group optimization that is now employed, but the differences between class output then and now is negligible.
also its very important to remember happy raiders are a lot better than Min-max Zugzug’s that are rather capricious.
Also consider that 99.9%+ of the TBC Population going forward will not be at the level worth even worrying about “parsing” and basically their use of the WoW logs is pointless outside of attempting to improve their own personal output for the reasons of self betterment only.
Basically what I am saying is that promoting everyone to just ZugZug the easiest most efficient classes like what was done in Classic for warriors is just stupid, and I feel its a good thing to promote playing Melee still because there is nothing wrong with melee, they can do just fine, and clear content, and as long as the player is playing the class they enjoy most; that is all that really matters here.
14 year old content got cleared 14 years ago, and we did not have ideal comps and did juuuuust fine, its gonna be a ok.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I’d personally prefer to have good and happy players. I want people who are happy playing what is best because being the best is what they care about.
True, but that doesn’t mean melee isn’t inferior to ranged. Melee is still worse than ranged even though most people aren’t playing at a level where that matters.
This is the same stupid argument people make about stacking Warriors in Classic. “My Balance Druid clears Naxx just fine!” Okay? But all people said was Balance Druid is the lowest DPS spec in the game… which is objectively and demonstrably true.
You think this proves your point… it doesn’t prove anything.
Not a single person has suggested that people won’t be able to clear the content with melee.
That’s not how theorycrafting works. In TBC, mechanics are very simple and you can slice up combat into easily modeled chunks and add them together later. The hardest part, by far, is modeling your character’s rotation and actions with sufficient depth and knobs so you can firmly establish ideal stats, talents, gear, and abilities when planting your feet and attacking a single target dummy with no deviation.
From there you can incorporate rotations that rely upon special cases like a Rogue having to pool Energy for Kick, or combo points for a Kidney Shot.
Finally, you need to be able to account for limited uptime so you can establish burst windows as well as optimize actions since you’re moving from target to target, the target is dying quickly, etc. This is especially useful since it links into how you judge and rate trinkets and other cool down improvements to your DPS, and there’s nothing stopping you from making this “limited duration” as long as you like to simulate various fight times anyway.
All of this can be done in Excel or Googlesheets. You don’t need to run simulations for this kind of stuff, it isn’t that complicated.
TBC Classic is going to be 2.4.3 balance, the content is very easy at that point, so i wouldn’t worry about Melee too much.
If Blizzard decide to make the content harder, then maybe Melee can get buffed.
Void Reaver also has higher than usual Armor, and is immune to Bleeds and Poisons because he’s Mechanical, plus Melee have to GTFO for Pounding. Not exactly the best example to cite simply because some ranged have to move some times.
Class balance? Probably.
Dungeon/raid balance? Probably not.
no they don’t. Any raid with a competant heal team can easily manage it in combination to stream totems + JoL. True on the bleed/poison thing though. Keep in mind this fight completely neuters ele sham dps aswell. It takes 3 seconds to move out of the blast and 3 seconds to move back (to prevent double up blasts down the road). That’s a heap of down time.
Have they announce what patch they’ll be running on or no? I know the release date was leaked. Has there been more info since the last surveys were sent?
It is still a liability to account for 1350-2250 per tic (or 4050-6750 total) from RNG procs and Healing Stream alone. Casters were notably susceptible to unhealable damage if they held on to their Shadowfrost stuff for Naj’entus, and that burst was 6-7k.
Because the iteration of nerfs that occurred during TBC were deliberately progressive to make earlier content much more accessible as later content rolled out. MC and BWL weren’t nerfed when AQ40 came out to make them easier to do.
Heroics should start out strong and the only nerfs we should see from the start are the adjustments due to consumable restrictions and bug fixes. The later Kael’thas shield nerfs for instance shouldn’t be in place right off the bat.