My guild isn’t that sweaty, but they’re already talking about the first raid being stacked with at most one Rogue. I’m worried, but I do wonder how the guild will decide closer to launch.
That’s actually really stupid. Rogues are the single best melee DPS class in TBC, and you’ll want at least 3, even for the damn kick on some encounters. You won’t see any fury warriors anymore, lack of movement and survivability compared to a Rogue is just silly in comparison, cloak of shadows alone is huge.
1 Like
You can just do the math for yourself if you want. On a tank-and-spank fight, most melee specs still do significantly less DPS than most ranged specs.
Rogue might individually outperform some ranged DPS specs, but those ranged specs generally offer a significant raidwide DPS gain via their spec specific buffs and debuffs.
1 Like
As someone who has been memed on for playing Hunter in PvE for all of classic despite their whining need for Trueshot and someone to pull everything for runs, I can’t wait to tell half the raid to reroll shaman and delete their warrior/rogue.
2 Likes
still playing my rogues, because I love the class.
A good warrior/rogue that is willing to put in effort may always have a spot, of course. Especially if I hear that glaives makes their dps very solid. And I’m sure both the rotation and dealing with mechanics will be more engaging than steady shot/shadow bolt and afk.
1 Like
I think history has shown that most people don’t really care about what is “engaging,” but instead care more about what is good.
There could be a class that literally only auto attacks for top DPS and the vast majority of players would gravitate towards it.
Feral is arguably the most engaging spec in the game, and one of the least played. Hell, its DPS isn’t all that horrible if played well, either, and yet…
2 Likes
Well, people also hate persistent inconvenience, and feral is certainly one of the most inconvenient specs in the game.
False, can you show me proof of this?
1 Like
I’d like to see it, too. Unless they are specifically talking about fights with low melee uptime, but… that’s not all fights.
You are wrong. The main advantage ranged have is the ability to bypass the need to move as much as melee. There’s a reason why melee dps picks up in t6, and it’s not solely the gear.
1 Like
Haha good one Mordegast.
But for real, just bring A rogue if you want. You typically don’t want to bring 3 rogues lol.
I’m assuming you’re talking about powershifting and/or MCP farming.
Okay, use Balance as an example, then. It’s braindead easy: keep up FF, cast Starfire. But it’s terrible, so few want to play it and fewer want to bring it.
Yep.
First, look up the formulas for all the damaging abilities in the game.
Next, research the optimal rotation and create formulas to simulate how many times you’ll be able to cast those abilities in each rotation.
Then input your stats into those formulas and divide the total damage by the duration of the rotation to calculate your damage per second.
Optional: account for cooldowns by dividing the fight duration by the cooldown length to create uptime, then multiply that the value of the buff, finally applying it to the formulas you created.
If you can’t be bothered to do that math on your own, I sincerely doubt anything I show you will convince you.
For what it’s worth, Enhancement isn’t terrible. You’ll be nice and cozy above Balance, Fire, Shadow, Elemental, and Affliction, but below Beast Mastery, Survival, Arcane, and both types of DS/Ruin Warlocks.
There’s a reason Rogues’ and Warriors’ DPS picks up in T6: Warglaives. It literally is just the gear.
Rogues in particular benefit massively from the absurdly powerful 2.8 speed 1H sword in a world where most weapons are 2.6 or 2.7, increasing the damage of Sinister Strike quite significantly. Add onto the fact its DPS is the highest of any 1H in the game save for the Dagger and Fist Weapon off Kil’jaeden (and technically Warp Slicer/Infinity Blade during Kael’thas), and an insanely powerful 28% haste proc with a ~20% uptime. THEN, add onto all that the fact the off-hand is a 1.4 speed SWORD, which is absolutely insane when paired with a 2.8 speed main hand with super high average damage.
Fury also benefits from these weapons, but would only use the offhand if they had both, whereas a Rogue would happily use either on its own. Fury prefers a slow off-hand to increase Flurry uptime and improve Whirlwind damage, but the haste proc outweights both of those things quite easily, especially when stacked with other cooldowns.
When Rogue and Fury finally have Warglaives, they are competitive with ranged specs.
As I already stated, their individual DPS might be superior to some ranged specs, but the ranged specs tend to offer greater raid-wide DPS despite that fact via things like 3% physical hit to the whole raid, 5% spell crit to the party, 3% spell crit and hit to the party, 300 Mp5 to the party, 200-400 attack power to the whole raid, 1.15x or 1.1x multipliers to certain damage types, etc.
Every other melee spec is basically using the same weapons until T6 because the blacksmithing weapons are just that strong, so you’d think they’d be as far ahead as possible in terms of damage, but they’re still behind. They get some gear and weapon upgrades in T6 and maybe they finally get ahead, but NOPE, casters start getting littered with haste on their gear, they’re easily spell hit capped by then, and their DPS still far exceeds melee.
1 Like
Well, hold on. That’s a different thing you’re arguing here because Balance has the same engagement level as, say, DS locks or Fire mages, but with less damage. Whereas optimizing Feral is a more complex task (which results in somewhat subpar output).
Besides which: we actually have a Balance druid (and two Ferals, for that matter), and we bring him to the raid quite often. We have too many raiders to consider bringing more than that.
Yeah, that’s… kind of my point. It’s the same level of engagement, yet one is significantly far less played than the others. There’s a sort of ratio of complexity to output that people are seeking, and it heavily leans in favor of output.
Most people don’t care about the spec being engaging; they care about doing big damage and/or pwning noobs.
Part of it is also quality of life.
Mages can port, make water, AE, and PvP quite well.
Locks have healthstones, can stone in case of death, farm like champs, and manage their own mana in the world…and are excellent in PvP.
However part of what makes classes desirable is role assignment and interactivity between classes.
How a guild uses a class and what classes they are grouped with will cap what melee can be brought.
An example is if you have 1 Enhance + 1 Ret…it can and will limit guilds who require a higher degree of performance from their melee.
melee like enhance shams in their groups
Ironchain speaks truth.
A couple of brain dead Warlocks will chug along nicely through the entire expansion whether they have to dodge anything or not, simply because they scale so ridiculously well, and trounce your Melee who are doing everything they can in conjunction with the Tank to maximize uptime and minimize disruptions to the DPS.
That’s what they mean, at least I’d hope so, and it’s true, well played ranged classes will always do better in a lot of encounters in TBC, there’s a reason most guilds and pugs would stack so much ranged, or prefer them.
That being said I still played a Rogue and did very well. We also had more than 1 rogue
What are you talking about Ret Paladins are viable, I made mine extremely viable.
It’s probably my best bank character I have.
2 Likes