Hi All,
So I’ve been maining Sin rogue for near 20 years and I’d just like to share my thoughts on the new Thistle Tea changes in 11.0.5.
The patch has been out for about a week now, and while I felt it was bad after the first couple hours, after a week, my thoughts remain unchanged:
TLDR:
The change to Thistle Tea is just overall not good nor beneficial for new or experienced rogue players. It does not make the class easier to play but rather the opposite. It results in an overall dps decrease if the players energy management is not absolutely flawless, as efficient energy management is now harder than it ever was before. Below I will discuss my points in more detail.
I cannot speak to other specs, but for Sin, this change is without a doubt an overall nerf, especially in high end M+ and hectic cleave/AoE content. Maybe it’s not visible in the raw simulation numbers, but in many in game situations this results in net damage loss.
The changes to auto pop Thistle Tea in 11.0.5 don’t make a whole lot of sense for this spec, and actually end up making it harder to play rather than reducing button bloat.
You’ll still be using tea manually and in the same situations as before to be performing optimally, but now you also have another mini game of math to play in your head to ensure you never dip below 30 energy, otherwise you won’t have a Tea when you need it.
Rogues basically now have to step on eggshells to not auto pop this CD.
You have made it so we always need to reserve 30 energy or we will loose a charge of Tea and waste what situationally could be a very powerful cooldown.
This means sin rogues now have to watch their energy more than ever before to be effective, actually making the spec even harder to play well. Which I think is the opposite of what this change was meant to do.
Sure I understand the need to reduce button bloat for new players, but what you have done here is taken a situational offensive CD and made it pop when we don’t need it.
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All Sin rogues use at least 1 charge of thistle for their 1 min Kingsbane CD. If you auto pop Tea on accident you likely won’t be doing optimal damage during your CD window.
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On top of that, not all situations call for a use a Thistle Tea. Sometimes its much more beneficial to dump your energy to kill a certain target, say at the end of a pull, or a mob that needs to die first.
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Not to mention when dumping energy into a target in AoE situations, it typically results in a refund of energy when the target dies due to the remaining time on Rupture and Garrote from the Venomous Wounds talent.
To auto pop Tea then over-cap on energy due to the target dying not only feels bad, but you’ve also just wasted a charge a Tea that had absolutely no benefit at all, and it likely won’t be available when you actually DO need it.
- The long 1 minute recharge means that you likely will not have a charge when you need it if you accidentally trigger an auto pop.
- Repeated accidental dips under the 30 energy line compound the issue due to the long recharge time.
- The more you accidently dip under 30 energy the worse it gets as you loose charges.
My last thought would be:
Tea has never been and was never meant to be constantly used on CD, the main purpose has been giving the player agency over when they want/need more energy based on what is happening in game at the time.
I feel this was over looked in this change.
I see three possible options to help fix the problems I have listed above:
A) Make the Auto-pop at 30 Energy Optional by Making it a Choice Talent on Thistle Tea Node.
- This would be the preferred option as you would be giving players a choice.
- If some players want to not pay attention to their energy and just auto pop as they go that’s fine, they should be able to do that. However, experienced players should be given the option manage their energy themselves and optimize their gameplay as we have been doing for years now.
- Another suggestion I have seen would be a Glyph to disable the auto pop, this would also be viable.
B) Revert the Change to Auto-pop Tea at 30 Energy.
- You already pruned Slice and Dice as well as Echoing Reprimand. I feel like this additional prune to Tea is just not needed, and I think many other players will agree.
- Originally this was my first option until someone suggested a choice talent.
C) Change the Mastery Buff to Proc on Either Kingsbane or Shiv.
- This way the mastery buff would no longer be tied to energy management, which has long been a problem.
- Shiv I think would be the optimal choice here as it would affect all specs.
- However, this is the least appealing of the solutions as it still does not solve the issue of energy over-capping due to the way the Auto Pop Tea interacts with Venomous Wounds talent when going for a kill.
- The problem of wasting tea charges when you don’t need them would also remain.
- If anything this should be implemented along with one of the above options.
Anyway, just some passing thoughts from a dedicated and long time sin rogue.
Thanks for taking the time to read, feel free to share your thoughts!
(Just realizing I posted this from an alt on the forums, my current main is Avernix, you’ll find me in the comments, proof I actually rogue haha).
