This PvP gearing system

[Inemia-rexxar (Inemia)]

I agree with this but I still found Legion BGs with templates far better.

i think they were better as well, the actual stats the template provided could have been reworked on a spec by spec basis to keep them all playable but balanced.

the scaling system has already failed in that gear matters, if you are a fresh 120 and you go into a bg with ~75k hp you are going to get steamrolled by people with 200k+ hp. the gap is significant enough that scaling loses its effectiveness to help the underdog, meaning scaling will need to be retuned every once in a while the way templates were.

the other issue is character stats, a fresh 120 is going to have crap for hast, crit, and mastery. scaling only works on damage and AP, the fact that i have 20% or more haste means i generate runes at a faster rate than a fresh 120 dk, resulting in an extremely uneven difference in output even without playerskill making any differences. while it’s temporary to the start of an expac, it wasn’t an issue at all under templates.

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

Eh, the scaling isn’t meant for a 1v1 basis, though a decent enough player may 1v1 an absolute terribad. It’s more so you can contribute to the team-fight, damage/heals wise. Take expansions before Legion, a fresh toon was only good as a CC bot, where as now they deal enough damage to take out players. I have done BGs this expansion where our FC was under 100k hp, and we won.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

You’re getting geared while pvping,

Yea, pretty crap RNG gear?

it sounds like to me that you and your friends only pvped for the gear and not about getting better and getting into higher brackets.

To an extent, ya? This is an RPG… You develop your character so you’re gonna do what gives the best gear? Hence now they don’t play rated at all anymore and heroic raid/mythics. They can target their rolls and target bosses and dungeons for better gear than they will get from an RNG chest drop at 1700 rating. And capping for an item that despite not being RNG is a downgrade to almost anything they have?

Zero incentive for anyone sub 1800 to do rated PvP at the moment. Again some people will say who cares about them scrubs but I’d rather there were more pvpers not less.

you can get higher ilvl gear doing heroic raids and mythics 10+ but are you having fun?

To an extent this is true. It’s why I stopped doing pve half way through and still got decent gear (no 3rd trait which was super frustrating, but eh). To them though their enjoyment is larger scale battles of wpvp and random 15/epic BGs. So they do the content that gives them the best chance to compete, which is why they raid/mythic+. (This is that guild of 15 ish).

With the scaling people with 10 ilvl on you aren’t that much more powerful.

While I do agree with this to an extent, it still feels bad not getting an upgrade for weeks (I got 3 upgrades in 10 weeks because RNG God’s gave me 3-4 boots). It feels bad doing content for gear when you can do other easier content for higher gear.

Also scaling isn’t as strong as it was in legion. My alts (I probably have too many) all feel way more useless than they did in legion or in full, easily obtainable honor/conquest gear of WOD. Azerite traits are super impactful (even with 50% nerf/buff) and not being able to get 3 in an entire season is ridiculous. My alts all have 0-1. Now we also have RNG maledict? Honestly alts feel worse now than they have in a long time.

[Meadamemnon-tichondrius (Meadamemnon)]

None of this is true though. You can be competitive in whatever content you can do. If all you do is random bgs the gear you get from it is perfectly fine. If you’re a 2k player you get gear, that is on par with heroic raid gear and mythic 10s, for being in the 2k bracket and you’ll be fine. You’re making it sound like you’re some former rank 1 that can no longer push cuz of gear.

Actually some it is true. I play 4 toons, and in all cases to get the azerite traits I want for the build i prefer i have to PvE. Even though they offer 4 pieces of gear in the azerite conquest cap weeks, the piece may have only 1 or 2 at most of the azerite traits that I need/want. Where as I can find that from the PvE azerite vendor with nearly every trait I want on each piece.

Its absurd, its rediculous. So now I have to PvE to get these pieces so I can play the BUILD I want to. Not compete at X level, but play a BUILD, because for some reason the empty base classes are filled by PvP talents and Azerite traits. A fantastically terrible design. I hate PvE, I dont want to do it, it makes me not want to play the game, just like all my other PvP friends that quit the game because they have to PvE to do the same thing I mentioned. Give us a vendor.

[Meadamemnon-tichondrius (Meadamemnon)]

Most of my old friends from previous expansions quit because of how bad and barren the class design is. They feel empty. To play the playstyle that you want and have come to know and love, you have get azerite traits. Low and behold, those azerite traits are in PvE and scarce if not in PvP or in the combination needed now. Blizzard knows what people are using in PvP, there are 3rd party websites devoted to this by spec. Its absurd.

Thats why most of my friends quit, they dont want to have to PvE if they dont want to. Blizzard is trying to make it easier to play both and encouraging it, but they are encouraging it too much forcing us to cross between each when we dont want or enjoy it.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

Most of my old friends from previous expansions quit because of how bad and barren the class design is. They feel empty.

God did you play in mop? There were so many good buttons to press…

Mage time warp, demo lock meta, druid symbiosis… I could go on I’m sure, those were just my mains.

I don’t know if vendors would fix this sadly it would help… But that is also why people hated WOD, it was the massive prune of mop. Funnily enough class design still felt better post wod prune than now. Enhance feels like this slow/lethargic spec (WTB freedom totem!?!).

WOD had issues (pve wise too) but man bfa/legion haven’t done anything to improve these.

[Meadamemnon-tichondrius (Meadamemnon)]

I didnt play MoP unfortunately. Cata ELE made me quit the game for 2 xpacs and I didnt come back till mid legion. I heard MoP Ele was amazing though.

Vendors would only repair some of the class design if they had azerite gear available for it. The reality is that they couldnt continue to add abilities without homogenization and ironically the classes are so pruned down they are homogenized. Cata felt like a good stoping point for abilities honestly.

What vendors can absolutely fix is the ability to play different builds within a spec. Maybe try a high crit or mastery build etc. Now you are so dependent on azerite traits and gearing that you have to build around the crap gear you get. Its sad really.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

What vendors can absolutely fix is the ability to play different builds within a spec.

Aye this is pretty true… Used to love doing mastery vs haste affy builds.

The reality is that they couldnt continue to add abilities without homogenization and ironically the classes are so pruned down they are homogenized.

To an extent maybe? But all those buttons I mentioned above felt so unique, cool and powerful. No homeginization needed… Seriously a fun expansion

[Bazongas-zuljin]

Sounds like burnout tbh.

You seem like you’re trying do diminish his point of view.

[Leadbelly-spirestone (Leadbelly)]

This is the problem with this forum and the mentality of some people in it. Something like vendors for pvp that is an overwhelmingly supported idea is shot down by the likes of these people because of a feeble ‘current system is fine’.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

You seem like you’re trying do diminish his point of view.

To be fair to Jugga, I haven’t been super nice… Arguing the same points again and again can be exasperating…

Apologies to jugga (still disagree but I’ll try and be nicer).

Something like vendors for pvp that is an overwhelmingly supported idea is shot down by the likes of these people because of a feeble ‘current system is fine’.

To be fair it is “fine” for some people… They can share that. I’d agree the overwhelming majority would prefer vendors but eh…

Even jugga has stated that vendors would be okay as long as scaling is still in effect. Maybe something like wod where the fresh people were scaled a little better. Honor gear/conquest gear was pretty good but fresh toons were probably weaker than now (catch up was superb though )

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

To be fair to Jugga, I haven’t been super nice… Arguing the same points again and again can be exasperating…

Apologies to jugga (still disagree but I’ll try and be nicer).

takes 2 to tango. It’s all good.

Even jugga has stated that vendors would be okay as long as scaling is still in effect.

yea, the scaling is the major bonus

[Bazongas-zuljin]

This is the problem with this forum and the mentality of some people in it. Something like vendors for pvp that is an overwhelmingly supported idea is shot down by the likes of these people because of a feeble ‘current system is fine’.

I’m not sure a full-on vendor is needed, but there’s some compromise somwhere that can work way better than the most strict time-gating that I have seen in this game. And I did all of the Garrison and Order Hall stuff.

[Usulwaterman-duskwood]

rng gearing for all is lame and not fun for me. i hate it. i was always one to go get the currency so i could have control of my characters progression. now that’s gone and it sucks. ive never felt good or had a yay moment. its like pulling a splinter out of my toe. that’s exactly how it feels. the battle for azeroth may as well be the battle for pulling splinters out of my feet. that’s how i feel about rng gearing. it was avoidable befor but now it just forces me to hate the game. yeah i know those are strong words and i should just quit and not be salty but lets be real. im not going anywhere just yet. honestly i hate just about everything that bfa has done for wow. NOTHING. what? almost kill the game in one fel expansion?! holla acha boi. what has bfa done to improve wow? pvp or pve? rng gearing for all. AZERITE? NOTHING. they claim theyre giving us choices and more to think about but im like what? which faction ill roll the dice next with a cache? farming pve just so i can que bg’s in decent gear is … why… just why… i wouldn’t have a problem with it if it was better than the pvp gear i could buy at a vendor but that would be a choice and blizz only talks about giving us choices without really giving us any. i mean theres plenty of choices of how to be bored rolling dice all day doing wq for caches or m+ for caches or spamming bg’s or rated pvp and hoping. seriously who want to sit and play wow and hope all damn day. i hope i get something good. i hope this isn’t garbage. i hope im not stuck farming m+ all day for a piece of gear. does that sound fun? and then factor in the disappointment of the nope for your hope. all this just to que bg’s. its what i do. its not fun anymore cause what was fun for me is gone. im not burnt out or complaining for the sake of memes.

[Leadbelly-spirestone (Leadbelly)]

We will perpetually be stuck in this back and forth.

Almost the entire pvp playerbase says “Give us vendors!”

Juga plus like 1 other person says “Gear doesn’t matter in pvp. RNG is fine”

People pushing rated pvp say “We only pvp. We just want to buy the gear with the stats (maybe traits) that we choose to. This can be made so that it won’t affect the delicate sensitivities of the Juga-types that want to keep RNG gearing”

Me: “whynotboth.gif”

Blizzard: * tumbleweeds * /adds new mount to blizz store

[Demoniclily-kiljaeden (Demoniclily)]

Low and behold, those azerite traits are in PvE and scarce if not in PvP or in the combination needed now

Which traits are these? Cuz as a warlock and dh I find all the traits I need between pvping and wqing. I know there was that 1 trait that was only available thru uldir, idk if there is one for this new raid. I had 40 slots in my bag taken by azerite gear because of all the combos I could do with them, and that’s from pvping I didn’t really start doing mythic 10s till about a month ago.

I think these problems are all in you guys head and are complaining just to complain. I have build like 7 different builds with different stats and traits because I’m just bombarded with so much gear.

[Darelin-darkspear (Darelin)]

Again, we need to be advocating to get the conquest cap reduced or removed for the earlier sets. It is very difficult to try and convince guildies to get into pvp and arenas when they see a 340 weapon as the first reward. Same goes for alts and new players if they are this far behind they are better off gearing outside of pvp and then trying to catch up the CP later (which means holding off on pvp).

Quick edit: Forgot to mention that the pvp gears ilvl is already so throttled that the gear they are grinding for in pvp will always look lilke it is completely worthless. Why grind for a 380 when you already got that from a mythic 2.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

Which traits are these?

I went the entire season with only 2 riptide traits. A whole season without being able to get the trait through PvP. Also one of the other traits I rocked a pve item for 3/4 of a season because it was the only way to get a high ilvl of the trait.

My destro warlock buddy only had one way to get one if his flash point traits, the ab world boss that he had to hope dropped it once every 2-3 weeks? Seems fun.

I had zero of the ghost wolf traits I would have loved when they were absolutely busted. PvP gives you barely any traits and usually not the combos you want.

. I had 40 slots in my bag taken by azerite gear because of all the combos I could do with them

Yea that sounds like tons of fun

I’m just bombarded with so much gear

Bombarded by endless amounts of RNG crap stats/traits/trait combos… Sounds like we have reason to complain lol

[Silverbolt-shadowmoon (Silverbolt)]

It is very difficult to try and convince guildies to get into pvp and arenas when they see a 340 weapon as the first reward.

Is this really the case? I think they should scale conquest rewards like emissaries. If you are beyond certain ilvl threshold, it should automatically jump in item level.

[Darelin-darkspear (Darelin)]

There needs to be a point in time like now where season 2 has started so the last set of season 1 gear should be your starter. The old stuff needs to either be given at a huge discount or retired. Think about it, you are farming 500 cp for gear that has been obsolete for a long time. That same 500 cp is the same you have to farm for the current tier of gear. So same work for way less of a payoff.