Was there a PVP player convention and yall decided to post at once? Or are you guys just the same person?
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I respect your right to have your own opinion, but I feel the exact opposite. WoW pvp has always been disappointing to me.
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Blacklist is gone because they split the bg pool up between epic and reg
Also there are more pvp rewards then Most other content
They are just aids to earn if youre bad
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Iām sorry, but what does this mean? That doesnāt sound like it makes any sense.
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The Blacklist system in the past was implemented because when folks were queuing for BGs they didnāt want to end up in the raid-styled PvP groups. So, they introduced the ability to blacklist battlegrounds rather than separate the two into different categories (this only partially worked since most folks blacklisted the Strand of the Ancients BG as most folks disliked that one more than most other BGs).
Separating the community is a really, REALLY bad thing for gamesā overall health, which is why it should only ever done consciously with a particular reason in mind. This whole āI donāt like X BG thus allow me to ignore itā isnāt actually what the blacklist function was there for. It may seem counterintuitive but, as I already explained, the reason it existed wasnāt for the general use of being able to ignore BGs.
Thereās a lot of reasons why PvP isnāt prioritized in WoW and threads like these generally explain why. Because thereās no general consensus on singular issues that can be fixed without appealing towards an entirely different group of people than those who in general have been playing WoW for the past 19 years.
The reason the only group of PvP:ers that really receive any prioritization are arena players, because a lot of their issues can actually be solved. All whilst also not negatively impacting the overall game, and this is basically the only group of PvP-players that have remained relatively consistent in WoW since TBC.
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So how exactly did Blacklisting achieve that outcome? Iām seriously wondering.
Because to me, blacklisting allows the player to ignore 2 battleground maps completely from their random pool. I canāt remember how it was setup back in the day now. Meaning, I canāt remember if we still had random bgs separated from epic bgs. And if you could only blacklist 2 total regardless of the game type.
Nonetheless, I canāt for the life of me see a reason why this doesnāt work. Or why it would split up the playerbase.
Lets say for example, players could right now, blacklist 2 maps from the random battleground pool.
How would that negatively impact anything? I have a strong suspicion that most players would choose to blacklist Seething Shore. The next most common battleground is hard to say. Likely either Silvershard Mines, Deepwind Gorge or Temple.
But, for the players who still want to play those maps, they wont blacklist them. So any other players who also do not have those maps blacklisted, will all get into games together.
Plus, worst case scenario, you can still always choose to select exactly what bg you do want to play.
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Pvp doesnāt cause durability damage
Yes it does.
Start a Battleground being fully repaired. After finishing the game, exit and see if you need to repair.
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Theyāve tried to turn MMO characters into a Esportā¦and then have no clue why its always broken one way or the other.
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It does, but at a reduced rate. I have seen it myself on my rogue. I will start off with 100% durability, sit in Valdrakken, do some BGs, and then bam like 97% durabilty.
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PVP needs a tuning pass but importantly fix the bugs.
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I already said it but I can rephrase it to be more detailed:
Folks blacklisted certain BG:s of specific types they didnāt want to engage with. Whether they were large raid-sized PvP groups or, as were and are still typically disliked within a PvP mindset, vehicle based PvP.
Yes, folks blacklisted these types (this being the keyword necessitating the need for a blacklist to exist) because people didnāt want to engage with those BG:s (creating the context for necessitating a blacklist).
Thereās literal decades worth of studies on this in regards to what happens when you create the pretext for players to āskip outā on certain content. Yes on some level you need it if content are vastly different from each other (see epic BGs and regular BGs). But creating subgroups within those environments split the playerbase which is what we saw happening when we could blacklist BGs.
Heck, it is something you have already proven in this thread yourself:
The title is āThis is why PvPerās are Quittingā; PvP includes Arenas, yet every single point you have raised has ignored that aspect, and it has been a huge portion of what I addressed in my comment to you.
You have already segregated those portion of players off because they donāt fit into this categorization that you are making as you are purely talking about BGs. Which has its own issues. Namely that BGs in the scope and form you are talking about doesnāt appeal to dedicated PvP players but merely the ācasually competitiveā players who occasionally (whether regularly or semi-regularly) into BGs.
You have segregated PvP into āArenasā and āBGsā and ascribed PvP to only the latter half, and given it far more relevancy in this thread of yours. Despite it being categorically irrelevant for the larger point if discussing PvP (which is even mirrored by the frequency of posts in the three different PvP forums on these forums).
When separating people into groups of different kinds it has to be done purposefully. You may not like all BGs equally, but none of them are so starkly different that they donāt serve their function as BGs. You keep bringing up Seething Shore but that is still a BG with strong PvP aspects to it, unlike what something like Strand of the Ancients was. Blacklisting BGs increase queue times, because a portion of the playerbase has been segregated from playing with each other.
No matter how minor one views it as, any form of blacklisting has this exact effect. Thatās why it has to be done with extreme care and caution, and is also why Blizzard is more willing to remove and/or rework entire BGs before keeping Blacklisting as part of the game. This is quite literally all there is to it.
If you get a BG that you dislike so much to this degree, the solution is to just leave the BG. Thatās quite literally the only option at hand because it is the only option that is healthy for the game and after all, thatās how and why Strand of the Ancients was removed. Because folks would rather not play the game than to do that BG. For other BGs, unless they invoke this response en masse, it most likely isnāt an issue for most players. Thus thereās no real problem to be solved.
This might be a dissenting opinion, but I wish we would have actually kept Strand and gotten rid of Wintersgrasp instead. They are very similar, but with Strand at least you had 2 rounds.
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Iām going to push back on this pretty hard. For one, it is incredibly likely that if Blacklisting were to be brought back, Seething Shore would be among the most commonly selected game. That alone will lessen the effect of a splitting playerbase. Besides that, there are numerous maps that can generate for you when you select a random bg. There will still be tremendous player overlap within that structure.
On top of this, anyone for example who really loves seething shore, might rarely see it pop in the random pool if Blacklisting returns. Luckily, they can easily still queue for it individually if they canāt find luck seeing it in the random pool.
Lastly, if lengthening the queue times is the absolute result of Blacklisting, I still will argue its a beneficial trade off for more player agency and eliminating an individuals chance completely of ever playing a BG they personally dislike.
Not at all. The immediate focus of my thread was about a silly bug that should have been hotfixed yesterday. It just so happens to not be an arena map. Furthermore, I did list these numbered points.
This in my mind, would be boosted through playing Rated games primarily.
Arena.
Arena.
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WoW PvP varies in class balance patch to patch, the ability to swap out talents for builds that will work against different comps cannot be seen on this level in any other game.
WoW PvP also tackles a specific fantasy trope and does it arguably better than anyone - Where else can I be an Orc Warlock and fight Human Paladins with Shapeshifting druids and healers, or hunt Dwarves on the weekend as a savage Troll? WoW PvP also has the added benefit of taking place in arguably the vastest most flavorful in game world there is on characters youāve grown attached to for years. Tons of gadgets for quick get aways, the threat of a rogue or hunter laying low where you least expect them.
There might be more modern games that have solid PvP, but no one does it like WoW. Which makes itās death by neglect all the more tragic.
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Yes, since Arenas/SS suck and Rated BGs take forever to form and one loss to fall apart.
Though itās more about BG Blitz now, since, using the current buzzphrase, it ārespects playersā timeā, by giving conquest on a loss if your team did not get stomped.
Strand was completely fine, and I miss it.
If vehicles are the issue, they should have deleted WG and IoC too.
And a whole lot of RNG on nodes which no one likes in PvP, which is a skill-based mode.
Iām fine with SS, but I can see why people hate it.
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The problem wasnāt the vehicles, the problem was that the game was heavily biased towards that first round, generally in favor of defense. Defenders just needed to destroy a couple demolishers and thatād typically secure the game for them. Zerg one half of the map to destroy two demoās, then relieve the turret holdouts and zerg the other two and you basically win every time. Unless the zerg ball is incompetent they will always be able to knock out the demolishers. And OTOH if you just made clever use of movement speed buffs, assault could knock out gates before the defenders even had the opportunity to reach them.
That, and it was incredibly easy to plant / troll on that map. One or two d-cks get on the assault team, board the vehicles and immediately run them into the water and youāre screwed.
This all leads to a situation where games tend to snowball in about 2 or 3 minutes with very little room in between. SOTA was almost always a blowout.
When Blizzard re-did the BG queues SotA was the odd man out since it was neither a 10 man, nor a 40 man instance and on top of that it was far and away the least popular BG in the game.
Just to reiterate on one point here also. My post is trying to shine light on the fact that Blizzard wonāt even hotfix the brawl. If that is the kind of quality control we are going to get, it might be a waste of time to even start providing feedback on how to address much more complex problems that plague arena.
While I get the point, we were told that weād be getting a new battleground with War Within. Itās something.
Yeah, major issue to be honest. They said that this was removed with the splitting of epic bgās and regular, but I think it should come back.
Also a major issue, yeah. Iām honor level 782 and not having anything to shoot for kinda sucks.
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