This is why I do not do dungeons

Mate. The lobby to SM isn’t that confusing. This is like saying you get lost in a public bathroom because all the stalls with doors look the same.

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Not having a map causes topics like this to be made and does nothing but deter people away from doing them.

Scarlet Monastery is an extremely bad design.
it’s impossible to navigate through and isn’t put together linear at all.

I waste more time in them that it kills any desire.

Taking the time to kill elites is perfectly fine…but when you make it impossible to navigate around so a player has this type of experience it just kills the dungeon portion of the game.

I agree no player should have to be put through this type of ordeal because of a piss poor design choice.

All tehy had to do was prevent enemies from respawning, I could at least deal with that.

but they made this 100% impossible

When YOU create a game, it can be like this. But don’t make “should” statement about the best-selling MMO in the history of the world. Your opinion is simply wrong.

This statement is completely false. The number of people AND their level is 100% important. If you have enough players (and high enough players) in your group, you won’t die, and won’t have to deal with respawns.

I’ve done hundreds of SM instance runs where nobody died. I’ve also done 30 or 40 runs where some or all of the group died.

By the way, it is extremely unusual for ANY group to do all 4 instances at once. Usually a group of 5 players around 30 does the easier 2 dungeons, while a group of 5 players around 39 does the harder 2 dungeons.

Are you sure you’re talking about SM?

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Says you, however my 3 hours in there and going in circles, says otherwise.

It’s a bad design choice to allow the enemies to respawn, especially in a place like this.

http s:// classic.wowhead. com/guides/scarlet-monastery-classic-dungeon#screenshots:abc:1

Look how non-linear the dungeons are.

Literally everyone but you can do it.

The whole lobby (the part not in instances) is a single large room. No corridors, no rooms, nothing but one big room with pillars.

If that isn’t where you were, then you weren’t in SM. You were someplace else.

The 4 instances don’t connect. You can’t go from one of them to another, without returning to the lobby (one big room).

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Saying how many people go in is relevant is saying this:
The size of the dungeon changes depending on how many people go in

So 4 people go in the dungeon has a totally different layout of the rooms and it’s size is smaller than if 3 people went in.

You’re whining about respawns when respawns are never a factor for a full group of 5 that isn’t dying constantly.

So yeah, it’s revelant.

That is wrong. That does not happen in Scarlet Monastery. It does not happen in any WoW dungeon that I have played. And I’ve been playing WoW since 2004.

If you experienced this, then you were not playing WoW at all.

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No clue what you’re talking about and I don’t think you do either.

There are 2 portals
If you go through 1 and have to come out for some reason you will have zero clue which one you came from.

Either portal you go in has about 15 hallways with about 12 rooms off each hallway, that circle back around. to each other.

Because the enemies re spawn you cannot navigate around

Your three hours speaks to your own abilities, not the design of the dungeon.

I admit that the lobby into SM can be a bit brutal if you’re not prepared and inexperienced. It’s all very compact and easy for runners to pull more packs before you get your bearings. But the design is quite literally one long corridor bisected by a wall in the middle, dotted by a series of antechambers which are obvious dead ends. You’re not even describing the instance proper: you’re describing the lobby to the instance (noting that most mobs do not respawns inside an instance).

If your group couldn’t kill the mobs long enough to work out your bearings in that simple corridor, you probably would have been unable to clear the instance anyway.

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That is what you said when saying the amount of people go in matters.

As I’ve been saying for the 5th time now The amount of people that go in does not matter, it doesn’t change how the dungeon itself functions or the layout of the rooms.

you and others keep saying the amount of people does matter which is ignoring what I am actually talking about.

If a dungeon functions to respawn enemies and the layout is all over the place with a maze of corridors and connecting rooms that all circle back on each other.

1 person going in or 5 people going in DOES NOT MATTER the room layout and the function of the dungeon is going to be exactly the same.

So once again how many people go in IS NOT RELEVANT.

so stop saying it matters.

There are 4 portals, but 2 are behind locked doors.

I had never even considered that SM Library could be a navigational challenge for anyone.

Look at the map on wowhead…

Dude is playing a different game.

This isn’t exactly accurate, but it does beg the question: what purpose would your group possibly have to leave the instance half-way through and return to the SM lobby?

Except that it is the dungeon design. You and others somehow keep failing to accept that if you kill all the enemies in a hallway and adjoining rooms, then you know you have already been through there because there are no enemies you use the no enemies as a marker to navigate.

Since the enemies in this dungeon respawn, then you have no clue if you have already been through that hallway.

How do you and others keep failing to accept that fact.

I’ve done several SM runs in the last week. It has 4 seperate dungeons: 2 visible portals and 2 large doors (which, if unlocked, have 2 other instances behind them). The instances don’t connect to each other.

The Library instance starts with one corridor, then has a large rectangular courtyard with a small room next to it with the Houndmaster in it. The only other exit from the courtyard goes to a series of hallways…there are no choices, you just follow the hallways.

The Graveyard instance starts with a hallway, stairs, an underground room, a hallway, stairs, an outdoor courtyard, then down some stairs to the final crypt (which has multiple stairs and is slightly confusing, but only 1 exit).

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It is accurate, and not that hard to understand.
If you kill all the enemies in a hallway and adjoining rooms, then guess what, you know you have already been through that hallway and those rooms.

No enemies is a navigation aspect.

If all the enemies respawn and you have to backtrack, you will have no clue which direction you came from.

not sure how you and others refuse to accept that fact.

I accept what you’re saying, but that again speaks of your own abilities. The lobby to SM is not very distinct, but it is very small. It doesn’t take long to work out where you are relative to the layout.

This is like saying you got stuck in Northshire Abby because enemies kept respawning and you couldn’t work out your location. At some stage you have to take personal responsibility.

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You are the only one encountering these issues.

Have you considered that the dungeon design isn’t the problem, but perhaps that the problem exists between keyboard and chair?

There is literally no reason to backtrack until the end of any SM dungeon. They are straight lines.

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It doesn’t have 4 separate dungeons. it is only 1 dungeon.
There are 2 portals and locked doors that cannot be opened. In teh protal all those hallways and rooms circle back onto one another.