This is killing my guild, experience, and faith

No need to get defensive. Im just saying that all those people crying out for layers are not helping. Layering has not place in classic. And all you do is give em a free pass everytime you have queues at hand. So they can just turn it on and off.

I also do not understand why your effort is wasted? The toon on whitemane still exists? You are not losing anything. All you do is create another character on another server. You wanna play, well thats how you can play. + you help out servers who might need an influx of people.

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1.12 talents on a release build, the current AV, and alot of other things have no place in classic either and yet here they are. Nochanges is stupid because the product was changed from the start., so the argument ‘layering has no place in classic’ is about as irrelevant as it gets.

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So it was the customer’s fault for Blizzard only having 11 servers at launch?

It was the customer’s fault for Blizzard not locking new character creations on a server when they themselves saw the numbers swell?

It was the customer’s fault for Blizzard to not faction lock servers before it was too late?

It was the customer’s fault for being one of the original players on a destined full server and now being forced to transfer and leave all their friends, guildmates and all the relationships they established to start anew?

Why are we blaming the victim here?

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Your not helping either side you realize that right? We pay 15$ to be in a que? doesn’t make much sense if you ask me when they could just add the layer and no ques 1 extra layer, our economy on whitemane is so inflated its not even funny all the lotus is hoarded, hell id go as far to say the arcane crystals are being hoarded as well, they already nerfed devilsaurs why aren’t they fixing the lotus problem as well as the que problem?

Regardless i’ll just play OSRS while in que at least their dev team cares

Players are not victims. I also acknowledged blizzards wrongdoing here. That said, they did tell that certain servers were full. Whitemane amongst them and that players should expect queues.

And yes classic is not vanilla but even though there are changes made layering should not ever be a part of classic. They made some unfortunate choices and changes to the original game but its not a free pass to just change everything now. Otherwise you end up with shadowlands all over again.

Just eat the queue, like you did in 2006. You wanted to play on a full server and if thats not to your liking then make an alt on another or move off the server. They also offered free transfers off whitemane, which ofc nobody took, because at the time queues were not that big of a deal.

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They already made game breaking changes lol adding a layer to actually let people play isn’t going to break the game, especially not for the servers that have the population to actually justify it.

Queue times are never the player’s fault. Unless you are some massive streamer or millionaire who somehow gets thousands of people to all log into one realm to crash it and put everyone in 4 hour queues, then it is not the player’s fault.

It is Blizzard’s responsibility to account for any issues the game may face, and resolve those issues. If they cannot, then that is a failing on their end, period. We are the customers. It is not our fault if Blizzard fails to assess how many people wanted to play Classic, and it is because of their ego that they weren’t prepared for Classic’s launch.

They were the ones who provided far too few realms at launch. Thus players started playing on those realms, and by the time Blizzard finally released more realms a ton of people were already settled in after multiple days of playing with their irl friends, making friends in game, and interacting with those in their realm. Telling people to just keep changing realms whenever they get a queue is not a solution. People can’t take their friends, guilds and communities with them.

Community is the most essential aspect of this game, and Blizzard can’t afford to botch it by telling everyone to just abandon their community.

I don’t care how many issues there are. Blizzard is a billion dollar company owned by activision who is an even bigger billion dollar company. They have the resources to resolve all the issues. They just choose not to because they are greedy.

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After midnight that jumps to about 95%

Im not disagreeing on blizzard being a culprit here. I wanna make that perfectly clear. And they obviously miscalculated on how many players wanted vanilla. So they started with not enough servers. Okay, once they realized “welp that will not cut it”. They introduced more servers. They made posts and told players that certain realms were packed to the brim.

People still did not move. There is plenty of servers out now that are in need of an influx of people and players. But ofc everything sub 5k is considered dead so nobody goes there. You have a handful of servers that are considered “healthy” but they are packed on with people while there is plenty of servers that def. could need another 1k players.

But are the players even willing to move? No. Nobody wants to be the guy who moves. And I also disagree with your “my friends and communities are on the server xyz”. Well yes so what? Just because you make a fresh toon on another server does not mean you lose your friends and community on the old one? I have 3 toons on 3 different servers exactly because I play and played on servers with queues. My rogue has a guild and friends on server A and my druid on another server has friends and a community on Server B.

So I do not understand your argument. You do not forfeit by having an ALT on a less crowded server. You actually make more friends overall.

And again Blizzard is at fault no doubt. But they will not adress this in a solution that actually helps us and said solution will be designed around them making money (paid server transfers). So it does not help at all if so many players come here and close their eyes, shut off their ears and just cry for layering to be brought back.

You are not helping the game at all and thats why the players are to be blamed as well.

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Having an alt on a different server doesn’t resolve the issue with your main. Most people don’t like to split their attention between multiple communities at once. One of those communities will eventually become favored, and that is usually the one you started on. People start making friends and start accustoming to communities within hours of starting a new character. By the time Blizzard released new realms people were already starting to settle in.

Players help the game by playing the game. We are literally funding it with our monthly subscriptions. It isn’t our job to make sure the game runs smooth and gives players a satisfying experience. We aren’t Skyrim modders.

Worst case scenario, there is no solution to the problem and Blizzard monumentally messed up at launch by not providing enough realms to play on. Still Blizzard’s fault, and they still haven’t fessed up to it.

Furthermore, the biggest and most obvious step towards a solution would be to do something about all the bots. They take up space on these servers, are destroying the in-game economies by camping Black Lotus spawns, and are in massive violation of the ToS. But Blizzard won’t do anything about them. That’s the first step, and they refuse to take it.

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Those folks were just looking for a reason to quit. Better they leave now while you still have time to replace them, than they leave during late AQ/Early Naxx and it kills your guild off entirely.

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Layering DID WORK. It just violates some inane sense of truism to the original game that silly people have. As if we could possibly teleport into the past and reenact the events of 2004. absurd.

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That sounds like something you claim with literally nothing to confirm said claim.
Im pretty sure most people favor having more friends over less friends. See? See what i did there? eh

Imagine ever taking an ounce of responsibility. This is not skyrim. Skyrim is a single player game. You keep bringing up the “community” of this game and this is a MMO. So the way players act and form said communities also impacts and shape the game.

Look at the absurd discrepancy of horde v alliance on most pvp realms. Horde has better pvp racials so there is a heavy leaning towards players rolling the better faction. Everyone min maxing every little thing out of a 15 year old game that players were told they (in spirit) would not touch or change. Now granted again, blizzard should have been more transparent on how servers were balanced initially and what factions dominate. But even then the players are responsible how they roll their toons and on what they want. Everyone wants to be on the big server. Everyone wants the best class/racials/faction for their toon. Nobody would ever think to bow down and take the worse option. I disagree that players are all absolved from the current issues we face.

I agree. But thats not what players cry on about. Players demand layering. A piss poor solution and if they reintroduced layering because of the outcry, it would again be the players fault too for demanding a stupid solution to a much larger issue and by giving blizzard the green light to avoid dealing with the bot situation at large.

Edit: See look at hornhoof here. With his narrow view on the issue. Crying for layering and giving blizzard an excuse to do the dumbest and most easiest solution that at the same time ruins classic even further.

And you tell me I am not supposed to blame the players?

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What good does recruiting people do on a server with completely unpredictable wait times??? How would you possibly have a reliable player base? Would rather find out my homies dont have what it takes on our own terms than be forced out by a literal 5 hour wait to get on the game.

Your shortsightedness is astounding. Choosing layering as the hill to die on? Why? You’re on a dead server - If they returned layering you wouldn’t even be affected. Therefore, you are taking this buffoonish principled stance rooted in the immensely stupid #nochanges ideology. No changes! Except when they gave us a completely changed AV. No changes! Except when there’s no 6-month cooldown on server transfers. No changes! Except when we have cross-realm BGs. Blizzard themselves spits in the face of your ideology, so why do you even persist? Who are you to determine the order of importance of the issues that plague this game? You are a nobody on a nothing server who isn’t affected by this problem, so be silent.

Obviously this is a pretty significant issue if the volume of topics and replies are of this magnitude. Blizzard has already established that applying layering is a simple as the flip of a switch, so there’s really no excuse for them to not implement it on a server-exclusive basis as an emergency measure until this problem can be met with a sufficient solution. People want to play the game but to ask us to stay logged in or wait in queue for up to 6 hours is just absolutely absurd and is far below the quality of product that Blizzard prides themselves in striving towards. Whitemane is the biggest server in Classic. There’s likely more players in the peak queue times on my server than there are total on whatever trasher backwater server you play on. Kindly remove yourself from this discussion, you chimp.

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And guess what? the current price of gold and the lack of Blizzard banning botters, makes botting more and more attractive to your average joe gamer.

You can pay for a second account easily by just botting a higher level character for a day… There is no real downside.

And yes, about 50% of the “players” on my server that are less than level 60 are bots.

You talk about shortsightedness while demanding layering and as a justification you claim “well they changed that in the past…”. Do you see the irony of this? Probably not.

Not to mention that netherwind is not dead and does have a queue as well. Im glad I am nobody and you are somebody. Very good points you are making.

Eh i cba, this is not worth to talk through, you did not read my points nor do you understand what you actually allow blizzard to do with your outcry everytime something does not go your way. Talking about shortsightedness. Jeez

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Have you heard of cliques? That’s human nature at work. We like it when the people we know are associated with one another. It’s why people make so many friends at school and work, because they engage with mostly the same people in the same setting as each other.

Getting a new job, or changing schools, can heavily disrupt your friendships. It’s why most people never talk to anyone from their high school days, because they are no longer in the same setting as that group of people. Same thing goes for WoW communities. The appeal is being a part of a community, not just bouncing between different communities without setting down any sort of roots.

Then Blizzard can apply layering for the time being while they put effort into dealing with the bot problem. Again, they are a billion dollar company. They have the resources to deal with all the problems at once. They just choose not to.

Yep. Friggen Jagex has a better handle on their botting issues, and RS is infamous for bots. We’re talking about World of Warcraft though, and Blizzard just can’t be bothered to actually do something about the vast number of ToS breakers that are destroying the in-game economy and soaking up realm slots, forcing real players into queues.

About as willing as you seem to be in not getting annoyed at other people being frustrated.

the stress this is placing on every single raider on whitemane can’t be understated. Removing layers was a misguided at best decision that has placed some of the most dedicated players back into an untenable situation.

Queues are worse than layers so please fix this!