People were complaining about it as soon as it was added. Then they put out a blue post asking for detailed feedback. Testers, myself included, responded. Much of the detailed feedback included “Why is this even a thing, it sucks for the following reasons:…”.
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I already know that.
My point was giving feedback/complaining about the timer being added is now moot, Blizzard has moved on, and that’s what their statement was saying.
I see, thanks for the link. I suppose you can disregard what I said in regards to timers. But from what I’m reading, it doesn’t sound like there are any timers here. You don’t have to complete it in X amount of time, but you do have to be fast.
But even reading that, I can’t decipher how it actually works in real time without playing it. Can you go back to the safe area? Can you die from the torments? How much time until they come? Can they be avoided or limited? I can see where they are coming from when they want tester feedback. Just reading it on paper brings about lots of different variables and questions. I could assume a lot of bad things on that alone.
There is some contradiction in what they say versus what they implemented though. Literally within days of each other. But you could spin it either way, depending on which context you take it in. No there isn’t a timer, but you can’t just stand around either.
But they did definitely say: This is very much a work in progress and an early look at a system we’re iterating on. Please post your feedback on it in this forum thread.
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OH man I remember, that really hit me hard… I was so ignorant, so hopeful… was such a wake up call… left the game soon after until Legion came… Oh DH my new love!
In all honest I really wish they left some “Type” of form to channel, ultimate or built up, power like a True Master and Lord of your own Demonic Power!
Oh well at least we still got the army part right! 
Last I read, once you leave the safe area, or start combat, its no longer a safe area.
And there are time pressures, if not literal timers, by the debuffs that you get, which prevent you for AFKing when you need to, once you no longer have sanctuary on the level.
I’m happy to break it down for you.
No. Once you leave the safe area, or you lose the Resting buff (by entering combat), the safe area is gone until you reach the next floor.
Yes. 3 of them can kill you directly. 2 spawn adds when you are out of combat. These are basic trash mobs with bonus health. If they spawn at an inconvenient time, if you go AFK at all when these torments are active, or if you are starting on floor 13+ without any anima powers, they are legitimately threatening. Another torment is a continuously ticking fire DoT, which can of course kill you if you don’t have a way to heal through the damage. It doesn’t prevent you from eating, but the level 50 food currently available in Bastion doesn’t give enough healing to top you off unless you eat multiple times in a row, which means the DoT is just ticking on you for longer.
The other torments either increase your damage taken (which acts as a soft enrage when they stack high enough, but technically can’t kill you if you can avoid any incoming damage [which is impossible in practical terms]) or decrease your damage done (which can’t kill you, but obviously makes it harder to keep progressing).
Per Blizzard, they are supposed to kick in at Floor 13. A run is 18 floors, and your first run must start at Floor 1. Subsequent runs can start on Floor 1, 7, 13, 19, etc (provided you have unlocked those floors), chosen by the player when starting. Clearing a zone (6 floors) gives you a new Torment based on your new zone, unless you roll the same zone twice in a row, then it continues to stack (which is probably not intended).
Additionally, there is an apparent bug where you get Torments on Floor 1, if you happen to get the Soulforge tileset to start. That’s the fire DoT one.
Only if you don’t ever progress past the boss on Floor 12. They aren’t supposed to become active while you are in the start-of-floor safe zone, but patrols path into those safe zones, which cancel the buff, and you are just as vulnerable as if you had stopped in the middle of the floor.
Yeah it’s super convoluted and isn’t doing a great job achieving their stated goals. I really wish they would scrap Torments entirely and find some other way to incentivize people to move faster. I think rewarding quick clears, rather than punishing slow clears, is the better way to go here.
The problem with your post is that it incites all the people who are getting mad about X.
X = Blizzard has come up with a possible solution (torments) to what they think is a problem (people taking “too long” to clear a single floor).
So why is it bad that people with no direct alpha experience weigh in about Torments? Because you guys literally can not give the type of feedback you think you are. People are so up in arms about how dare they add a timer, how dare they make me feel rushed, how dare they stop me from walking away from my computer to make dinner, that they forget Torghast has the potential to be endless but no one expects it to be endless.
There is only one failure state to Torghast right now. The Terrangue (sp?) takes you out. There is only one way to trigger the failure state, repeated death. What Blizzard is doing now is thinking about the problem “What if people feel the need to spend 4 hours doing Torghast runs to be competitive?” They decided they did not want Torghast to be an all day thing so they have added a second way to die. Now you can die because you can not handle the mobs scaling infinitely or because the torments get to you. But at this point some of the torments would take literally an hour or more to kill you.
But you didnt wanna actually talk about the solution so let me get back to what will interest you. Blizzard has a plan for Torghast and without Torments they felt people were not executing their plan. Therefore they need helpful feedback on a way to make a system that pushes you to play the game and not afk for cooldowns or your PTA meeting but doesn’t make you feel like every step needs to be planned ahead with optimal skips, shrouds, and CD usage.
A lot of people here may never be able to understand the idea, but its pretty simple. For people who want to play the game and relax they are trying to balance the experience to still feel rewarding. You will have to lose at some point the only real difference now is, will that be when you get killed in two hits by trash mobs or when they have so much health actually clearing a floor leads to you dying from a slowly stacking debuff.
Blizzard could really mess up and put out a horrible execution of Torghast. But the problem is “horrible” is subjective for most people. As long as the rewards for legendary items are simple to get (i.e. kill mobs/open chests) and don’t take too long (3 hours max per run although let’s be honest most of the playerbase is based on half hour bursts so they will probably cater the mat run to 35 minutes) no one can complain that the gearing system is bad. Then we are just left with people who complain about the endless system. Well there’s no way to balance what some want as an 8 hour slog and others want as a 1 hour race to make everyone happy. So we should wait and see until they actually have a clear idea of what floor they think is reasonable before we whine about timers. It’s not like you see people pushing M+35 keys, maybe Blizz doesn’t want 4 hour Torghast runs.
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This is my biggest problem with people. We have no reason to believe Blizz will “require” (people act like they have to have BiS items and whatever it takes to get them is what Blizz requires) people to do runs longer than an hour. If you can’t clear an hour a week or a month to do this content it may be the case that your life is too busy for MMO’s and you should find a single player game you can pause.
The thing is, rogue-likes dungeon crawlers exist today, and they don’t do all those gyrations that the devs are flopping around trying to make work, and people enjoy those just fine and don’t complain about them.
People CAN give opinion on the matter without being in the alpha, if they have researched the system and know what it is and see that its a flawed system, that the devs are “going down the rabbit hole” (something that all programmers know about and fight against doing during their career).
Again, you don’t need to be shot by a gun to know that being shot by a gun is bad. And you don’t have to be in the alpha to know their design is flawed and getting worse by the minute, if you’ve played other rougue-like dungeon crawlers (or even regular dungeon games).
Are there any MMO rogue-likes where your power relative to other players meaningfully impacts your ability to play the game as you see fit?
Genuinely asking.
I get the concern Blizz has here (that people will do stupid, STUPID things in any kind of content if it means they do 1% more DPS in their progression raid next week), I just think there are much better ways to solve the problem than what they have implemented right now.
But they don’t need to copy other rogue-likes step for step. This will be part of a much larger game. This is not the only activity and there will probably be thousands of players who never do it regardless. My point is, you can quote other games for doing their own genre better but if Blizz wants to test an idea and get feedback. How about you just give them feedback about why the idea feels bad and how it could be better instead of just removing it.
Also don’t give me the silly “you don’t need to experience x firsthand to know x is bad thing”. That is not the point I am arguing
You’ll need to elaborate on your question, as I do not understand it, in context to the subject being discussed.
One thing i think people are focusing on too much is the people who will optimize. It doesn’t matter how annoying you make it to be optimal there are people that live to find that route and play it. This is a game paid for by casuals and with a lot of casuals whining for the wrong reason. Most complaints are about people being unable to cope with the idea of a soft timer. I haven’t seen the people who want to wait all day for lust each pack to actually complain about not being able to lust each pack.
What really gets me is being lied to. I was actually looking forward to this especially since i cant do m+ and visions then turn around add timer anyway. Being a requirement to do on top of it really burned my excitement for expansion.
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I think it’s more a comment like “if you’ve never gone sky diving, please don’t tell us that sky diving isn’t fun”. This is actually very fair.
They start the post with “we appreciate all feedback”, so no, it’s not exactly like that.
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How were you lied to? Why can’t you do it now. There is literally 12 floors out of the initial 18 where this is not a thing. Thats 66% of the content has no “timer”
I don’t think Blizzard is stopping to think how much of a want there is in this game for content without a timer, especially after we literally just spent an entire expansion where the majority of major expansion features had a timer on them.
They’re really missing that important context that some people are just straight up sick of timed content and Torghast was their bright light at the end of the tunnel away from it. That’s why there’s such a backlash over a timer being added to it.
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They said there will be no timers, none, this is still a timer.
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It’s not a timer. And it’s not done yet. If you do not understand why this is not a timer then there is nothing else for me with you.
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So question for you. Would it be okay if they did not release timers but on floor… lets just say 36 you always get one shot?
Would you rather get killed with no chance to actually fight back at some point or be able to fight slowly and methodically but take too long and die?