How tf SV and hunter class overall is so undeniable abandoned from blizzard. Wth are they paying their developers for. Wth is the problem blizzard has with hunters. Changes for literally ever other class but not for the bottom specs/class. Makes sense.
We should nerf them more, exil 30% heal on 2.4min cd(literally the weakest heal in the game for its CD) is far too much it needs to be atleast 8min cd as well as turtle, also trueshot is too strong we need to reduce aimshot cast time from 2.4sec to 2.3sec and remove trueshot. This is literally the mindset of hutner dev they have totally nonsensical reasoning. I hope we see substantial nerfs to each ability in the hunter kit, I actually enjoy watching it burn now, literally nobody cares at all
Interesting. Article that came up on my Google thread had 6 worst classes to play in DF raids, it stated SV #1 Marks # 2 forgot were BM was at on it, did not get a chance to finish reading it. I’m sure I’ll see the article pop again, or I could look for it.
Oh well. I still help my group, and I just started Heroics, doubt I’ll get to Mythic. Maybe Blizz will address some things. maybe not.
Don’t worry some dumb a$s will come and say there is a top hunter in a single raid group or something and so the spec is good and viable, waiting for the apologists that don’t like to try tell me and other actual hunters that the spec is good, because they can kill fresh players in random BGs.
So…without just complaining about it irrationally, what is the actual deal here? What are we missing that Blizz sees? Do hunters just perform really well if you play sub-optimally, meaning that even if they were to do decent damage when played optimally, they’d likely crush the more casual play of even skilled players (due to being “easier to pilot”, or something along those lines…)?
Is the low damage a compensation for high maneuverability? Were hunters just too good last xpac, so they want them to take a backseat this one? Or what? Otherwise, it seems like it doesn’t make much sense why they’ve either left hunters alone, or arguably nerfed them this xpac, when they obviously aren’t putting up decent numbers, and require some insanely rare loot drops, at least for BM, to climb out of bottom rung status.
who knows bro, the class is broken and they haven’t voiced a fix.
There is no deal. Blizzard simply is ignoring Hunter. It’s the red-headed stepchild of classes. It’s not a melee, it’s not a caster, it’s not their new baby hero class, it’s not a streamer class, it’s too hard for them to balance because it’s the only ranged physical class so they don’t bother.
It’s like staring at their least favorite car they tried to fix with duct tape so many years ago and instead of getting the proper replacement parts used parts from another broken car to create a contraption that is anything but a car and now they don’t even want to touch it because it would be too much work to actually fix the damn thing to be an actual car. So they leave it in the garage while they give all of their other cars some time in the sun, some more than others.
This analogy makes sense for the most part, hunters are typically always at the bottom - or very close to it going back years and years. In PvE and PvP. Besides a few outliers such as survival at the end of last xpac where it was doing well in PvE and PvP because of tier, legendary, and tuning.
I think it’s an overestimation of what Hunter (MM in particular) uptime on a boss looks like, vs the reality of having to move around as much as we do. Also, Hunter has historically been difficult for Blizzard to get right, they’ve had the 3 Hunter specs roughly even only twice to my knowledge (MoP Throne of Thunder and WoD Black rock Foundry), every other time there has been at least one huge outlier (typically MM over performing pre-WoD, typically SV underperforming post-WoD).
The Hunter design space of being a mobile ranged damage dealer has been infringed upon by other ranged DPS. SV doesn’t have nearly the survival toolkit that other melee have.
Blizz had some truly wonderful designs for Hunter specs at various points (WoD BM, all 3 specs in MoP and Cata, and anything before that isn’t super relevant because of the major foundational changes we got in Cata like using Focus instead of Mana). Unfortunately, rather than build on the core design fundamentals they had at the time (which were common between the specs back then) and differentiate them via spec-specific abilities and passives, in Legion they opted to throw out that base design, from all 3 specs, and make 3 entirely new ones, basically different classes for how far apart they were (and are).
Things have gotten better since Legion (e.g. BM has multiple build options to allow a zoo, or stronger main pet, or better shots), but there is still a long way to go (why is Animal Companion not a choice node, with the other choice being something that just buffs the main pet? Why is a large portion of the spec tree gated behind having two pets?).
Unfortunately the Hunter community was utterly broken in Legion, so now half the people who want to fix SV want to turn it into Arms Warrior With A Spear, and the other half want it to be ranged again, and everyone just argues endlessly. BM is stuck in the zoo-or-no-zoo trap, with a lot of these thematic decisions and wildly different gameplay mechanics simply stronger (by a lot) than the other options people may like more.
MM is even worse off, because it is the only ranged weapon spec in the game that actually prioritizes ranged weapon damage. It needs to be all things to all Hunters, which isn’t possible. People want WoD MM back with it’s simpler rotation and unlimited movement. People want MoP/WoD SV back, with it’s massive sustained AoE dot cleave and regular Lock and Load process. People want MoP MM back, with it’s more methodical build up to instant Aimed Shots and Chimera Shot giving you a bunch of unique options with your stings. Some people even want Legion MM back, because they enjoyed the higher skill floor required to make effective use of Vulnerable windows.
There is no way to please everyone. Blizzard is going to be hated by the community no matter what changes are made, or if no changes are made. They simply can’t win.
The only way out of this (IMO) would be a frank open discussion between Hunters and devs, but that hasn’t successfully happened ever to my knowledge, and the last time it was attempted (in early Legion) it was a complete disaster.
Aren’t hunters the most popular class, or one of the most popular, by raw player numbers? The thought occurs to me that maybe Blizz doesn’t like this and is intentionally hamstringing hunters to try and dissuade people from playing the class, to even out popularity more. I don’t know, again, it just doesn’t make any sense. You’d think you’d give one of your most popular classes a ton of attention, not irrational nerfs, since their popularity obviously entices people to play the game.
No one knows what the class representation is because Blizzard hates telling people about their numbers.
As far as we know it’s about the same as most other classes. Monk is probably the one exception with a really low representation.
Nothing happens with our class because there are no valid discussions. We are literally like crabs in a barrel. If one spec is climbing out, the other pulls it down. Our next issue is living in the past That is obvious when you mention SV in a thread and you have to page through a dissertation of how great SV was as range…7 years ago. Or if BM is getting buff you have to read how easy it is to play with its 3 buttons. MM…Well MM just cannot decide what it needs to have or be.
So we will always be at the mercy of what the DEV’s think the class should be without decent or real input from the people who play it. Its been that way since vanilla btw, and it will continue to be that way until we do better as a community. Which imo will never happen.
This is because MM is the default “home” for any Hunters who want what the entire class was from Vanilla thru WoD - ranged damage, with one pet. In Legion even that wasn’t possible - BM was a zoo, MM had no pet, and SV was melee.
Even then, playing MM with a pet has significant drawbacks in terms of damage, so most run Lone Wolf unless you are PvPing and need the utility, you are the one bringing Bloodlust for your group, or you are soloing elites in the open world and need a pocket tank.
There is no way to please everyone. Blizzard is going to be hated by the community no matter what changes are made, or if no changes are made. They simply can’t win.
The only way out of this (IMO) would be a frank open discussion between Hunters and devs, but that hasn’t successfully happened ever to my knowledge, and the last time it was attempted (in early Legion) it was a complete disaster.
To be fair I think that is because a lot of players were upset that their spec’s identity had been all but erased from the game and replaced with something else. I think the only way to fix it is to either revert it back to ranged which would upset the melee lovers (but based on numbers there are not that many of them) or give us the option to do either ranged or melee survival. Until then the community will be split. They never should made survival melee.
WTF happened to your display picture??
That would be very awkward, hunters being decent in pvp (they are) has nothing to do with them being awful in pve (they also are) lol.
Just take the existing talent that buffs Arcane Shot and turn it into a full conversion talent, like Gladiator Stance was for Protection in WoD.
We need some love, certain specs more than others. That being said that graph doesn’t tell the whole story, but it does confirm what we have been saying for forever. That is overall damage which happens to be a lot of AoE. If you look at damage to bosses BM shoots almost to the top.
So like all of us BM hunters have been saying our ST is in a great spot but our AoE is toilet compared to other classes. They just gutted MM ST and hampered MM AoE burst with the removal of DT and SV has just been abandoned or something.
Edit just to add a caveat our ST is in a great spot if you are lucky enough to get the Ras bow which is another can of worms.
My tinfoil hat theory that i have posted in other threads is that hunter is the open world solo class. They dont really care if hunter is good in group content. They want hunters to be kings of soloing world quests lol.
Seriously though we could use some love as has been stated over and over. 3 points to even do basic aoe as beast irks the crap out of me. Every new raid fight i have to do mental gymnastics and ask the guild how bad we need aoe vs if i can just tunnel boss. Just started mythic Kurog, i haven’t been in on any pulls yet, but 2 target cleave sucks for any of our specs. So good luck to me (even being generally in the top 3-4 dps our group) getting controlled current technique lol. I have no doubt ill get the kill, but it sucks feeling like a liability to bring. Kurog is fun too.
Too much reliance on the bow is a huge issue as well, posted about that last night in another thread. Looking forward to using this 405 bow for probably at least 2 tiers if i never get heroic/mythic version.
I wouldn’t count on that. I’d expect a significant nerf if it’s outperforming season 2 raid gear of equivalent ilvl.
Blizzard does not want people to be pushed into running old content to get the best items for new content. This is a big part of why Titanforging was removed.