This game wasn't made for you: WoW vs Casual Players

I couldn’t get through the whole video.

I think from the 3/4 of the complaint I heard it Sounds like this an argument for how challenging the game is which I think a lot of people want. It’s not Pac-Man or the like.

Even more like a statement that new players need more guides from Bliz rather than third party sites and add ons. Which I don’t disagree with in total.

End game content should be more challenging and take you deeper in time investment and should be more rewarding and that is where the debate is. Sounds like you are equating time to the reward of achievement etc. and that is a debate as well to say tier for everyone v watering down that time investment and reward. Reward should be epic for epic layer content. If you want to get that level of experience it equates to one’s own passion to do so.

This game is great and a video like this wouldn’t be made unless it were.

There is really good game play for everyone. Are there improvements that can be made? Sure there is!

I suspect somewhere there is a frustration in how someone else can be better than another and that leads to its everyone else’s fault or it’s blizzards.


That thumbnail cracks me up. No idea whats going on here i just wanted to say i found it funny.

I just love how these things think they speak for every casual player out there…They don’t.

Honestly if someone is not having fun maybe it is time for a break,

Do I think they game is perfect no, do I think it’s too hard to advance, no not really.

But, do I let that stop me , no… There are plenty of ways to go and find fun if you find things that interest you.

I often think players need to take a step back and evalute the game for themselves over watching click bait streamer video where we all know none are ever going to be happy.


Well said.


The systems are designed to hinder the top 5% of players at the expense of 100% of the players. You think the top players want to be hindered?

This is just daft us v them nonsense. The devs have decided to wage war against competitive players to the detriment of EVERYONE.


I feel seen. I got AotC in SoD, did mythic Tarragrue, and did some +10s last season. I run all the standard add-ons and do a bit of simming. I don’t really think of myself as “casual” but my progression is limited by game time. The 16 hours a week mentioned in the video is about right for me. I raid 2 evenings a week, and spend a couple evenings hanging with the guild doing keys.

I almost quit SL because the workload was overwhelming and it sucked game time from what I wanted to do, which was run dungeons and raid. I didn’t want to grind out Venari rep in a horrible zone on foot, do hours of mandatory covenant quest chains, run Torghast ad nauseum, or do dozens of WQ to earn 1000 anima 35 at a time every week to unlock soulbinds. It was so much grind I didn’t even have time to learn the dungeons well enough to do any but the lowest keys until fairly late in 9.0.


I started having more fun when I stopped caring about how geared I was. Casuals used to be able to gear pretty well, but that’s the past. Now I focus more on collections and that gives me excitement. I hope Blizzard allows casuals to gear up and compete again in the future.


Where do I imply that the top players want that? I’m saying the Devs design the game around the top 5% then they design systems to hinder them which harms 100% of the playerbase. So initally the content is for the top 5% but they fear how fast they’ll burn through it and then they make these hindering systems which harms everyone and no one wants them.


So your enemy isn’t the competitive player. They aren’t designing the game FOR the top. They have content in the game that they then design ridiculous numbers of hoops.

I like m+. I log in to do m+ with my friends.
I could give a flip about the “world” of warcraft. A week where my preferred content is not available, isn’t for me. A week where my preferred content is locked at 7 isn’t for me. A mandatory 15m a day doing dailies for double leggo isn’t for me. Locking my renown behind 30m of questing and trickle fed 2-3 per week isn’t for me. Doing 2 torghast runs and being capped, isn’t for me.

Korthia wasn’t for me. The maw wasn’t for me. Mounts add nothing to my gameplay experience. The valor cap isn’t for me. I’d be full 272/278 right now with how many dungeons I run each week. But no, blizz says I can’t do that.

All of these systems are the things that casuals are against. I’m against them too. Using me as a scapegoat for your poor experience isn’t going to help your cause.

And linking someone who fundamentally attempts to position these systems as “for the top” only speaks to what I’m arguing against.

If they stop trying to protect players from themselves, the casual would be able to maximize the time they DO have.


This is a good video as well. I think I saw asmon go through this video. It’s all true too.

Part of me has to wonder though that besides it being an issue with Blizzard design, is it also an issue with players? Like if that guy would have never known he needed all that stuff to be better, he might have kept playing and having fun and then become curious as to why someone may be doing better than him and naturally looked into it. Rather he was bombarded with all this information from a veteran who was basically like “bro you’re doing it wrong. I’m gonna help you do it right and even though I have good intentions, I’m overwhelming you.” I think maybe for new players a little bit of work on both Blizzard and the current playerbase might be needed.

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I think you’re violently agreeing with them FWIW. They are arguing the devs are using anti-patterns to extend playtime but are focusing on two disparate groups when they do so. They aren’t blaming anyone but the devs.


yeah venruki is top shelf, that would intimidate most people lol but i’m gonna offer my own experience:

i’m old and handicapped (fingers are mangled), so my end results will differ significantly from a younger/healthier player, however, i have been playing since the third quarter of og vanilla. i’ve pvped, raided, pet battled, mog and mount collected, ran many a LFG and LFR, thru nearly every expac till wod, at which point, the difficulty level of normal dungeons exceeded my age and disability, and it hasnt changed since then. iow, half the content is beyond my capability. and here’s the clincher:

i dont think i’m alone in this. a good portion of wow’s playerbase are literally senior citizens.


That’s my thoughts. I think they’re mad because I think the game is designed around the top 5%. Which I think it’s hard to deny it is, because it’s very obvious that the devs keep the WFR and MDI in mind when they’re making patches, so much so that it’s very clear it’s a priority for them, despite Blizz having “nothing to do with” WFR, just such a bad-faith line.


More like “you hurt my feelings” trolling will be the flag, lol.

They literally deleted my thread yesterday because too many people flagged it because it bothered them so much lol.

Didn’t know so many WoW players needed safe spaces.


funny thing is i hear this is a vastly majority adult player game. lol.

I guess the competition of free market of ideas doesn’t apply here.


No dissent. Lol Never thought I’d say this but man bunch of Snowflakes lol.


if SLs or even BFA had been my first experience with WoW, Id have quit in the first month. I couldnt stand either expansion as a player who DOES like the game as a whole…if I had no foundation with WoW other than the last two expansions, theres no way Id keep playing.


Game sadly isn’t as friendly as a whole as it used to be to less skilled players or in some cases people who don’t have time for several mandatory grinds (especially at the start of the expansion before stuff gets nerfed)

It CAN be fun for these players right now if they group up with like minded individuals but it isn’t always easy to find those people and leads to frustration.