Yeah, they would. The issue with covenants is that we’ll be locked into our choice, and not able to just go to a rest area and swap our traits out.
1 Like
I hear you - but that seems like saying gravity is an ongoing challenge. You enter this world once - and you’re now just always subject to it.
It’s not nearly as much of a challenge of actually needing to think and work with a team to figure out a strategy together based on all the variables at hand - which would be like having to run a tough mudder obstacle course as a team and you have to figure out what strength’s and weakness exist across your team and you have tools available (but you can each only select one) to try and help overcome the challenge and be successful.
On a single target fight against a target dummy (patchwerk sims) - sure there might be “one right choice”; but that’s not really how it works out in practice with the actual game.
I’m trying to leverage the system to be useful and to encourage challenging thinking and teamwork, in addition to being able to even just change things up from time to time just to do something different.
That’s not to say that the people wanting the simple setup of one-and-done can’t still have that - they can just choose not to switch abilities ever. Simple as that.
You can still make your hard choice of not switching abilities, enjoying the benefits of that choice and overcome those limitations without forcing that approach on everyone else.
You can still play that way and get the subjective benefits from the system even if had flexibility built into it.
I’m not. I didn’t design the system.
Sadistic (general enjoyment of others’ suffering) may be the word you’re looking for.
But the key is that I’m not the one actually doing the thing that is causing the suffering of others.
Everyone is sharing their opinions about why they like or dislike this system or that system.
I’m simply sharing why people like Ralph and myself like the system - it needlessly imposes consequences on others. We ping Blizzard as much as we can to make these kinds of things happen - and they listen to the squeakiest wheels.
1 Like
I think you should go back and read what you replied to.
It was about players being spiteful towards other players over the system and you said you are that person.
Are you backpeddling now? Or did not not understand the conversation the first time?
You’re admitting to being sadistic and that you like seeing other players suffer, and that you actively call for things to happen that will put others in needless suffering. What is wrong with you?
1 Like
I hope they keep that system. Having stuff just be cosmetic makes choices way less meaningful. Not everyone wants to min max everything.
And not everyone want to have choice locking them out of gameplay on their main character. Or to be fair for me, having to rely on covenants because my class design isn’t complete enough.
A good compromise would be like the rest of things in wow to find a way to unlock them. If you really want to make it so most people can’t do that then make it hard, make it a challenge.
I guess I’m trying to clarify that the players supporting the changes because of the punishment it puts on players isn’t us imposing it out of spite.
We’re just enjoying it out of a sadistic perspective.
I’m not the one that actually designs the systems that make that happen. Why are you asking me what’s wrong with me?
I’m entitled to enjoy what I like. I’m not the person behind the suffering. I just enjoy seeing it.
Does my enjoyment not count for anything when I’m trying to express my support for the system?
The way its set up is you can’t be the best at everything. Some of these abilities are aoe some are single target while others are good in pvp.
They want you to make a choice. People are not happy cause they can’t switch and use what is situationally good.
I remember when I was an edgy teenager. Glad I grew out of that.
People aren’t happy because it essentially locks their character into a singular playstyle.
If everyone devoted themselves to purely one style of gameplay, it wouldn’t be an issue. You take the Single Target for Raid, the AoE for M+ and the utility for PvP.
But what if you want to actually do more than that? It’s not even counting the ramifications of playing multiple specs/roles, because people do do that.
It’s a lot like early Legiondaries, where getting an Affliction legendary meant that I had to play Affliction, Destruction and Demonology were essentially off the table for me because of it.
Honestly I see where Blizzard is coming from. Ion and the team want to bring back some more RPG elements into the game, and choices like the covenant abilities/soulbinds, which affect power in various ways, are more interesting than pure cosmetic choices.
People who minmax to the extent that they’d take a covenant they don’t like over one they like aesthetically/gives them the abilities they thing are the coolest/most fun for 1-2% difference shouldn’t drive game design, the devs have no responsibility to cater to these people. The worry is that the differences may be much larger than that.
That said Blizzard isn’t blameless. The problem Blizzard actually has, IMO, is that they have allowed gameplay to degrade to the point where DPS is the only relevant factor in the mind of most of the community. It doesn’t really need to be this way, Blizzard could broaden the design of their content to emphasis other mechanics over raw DPS, emphasis the value of situational mechanics, kiting, controlling DPS (instead of always go as hard as you can lol) in response to other combat mechanics. Mana and Threat used to do this to a certain extent, though I’m not necessarily advocating a return to that design, the more factors there are to success besides just big numbers, the less these sorts of situations would arise.
There needs to be clarity about how the system will work for PvE vs. PvP (including playing different specs) and what is the recourse for players when ‘tuning’ changes happen that impact on choices made during original (then-current) design.
I’ll say what I said in the other thead. I’ve seen a few threads on reddit with the suggestion of letting us have all of the CLASS covenant abilities obtained through story progression through the zone.
I LOVE this idea. It keeps choice for the big covenant abilities, but then people get four new class abilities to play around with.
So you didn’t understand the conversation. Because spite was what it was about, specifically spite from one segment of the player base towards another. And you said: ‘Players like Ralph, Argorwal, and myself have already shared that we are in favor of this system precisely for this reason.’
So you not only maligned yourself but the other posters you named. Maybe you should read more carefully next time. And not speak for other people.
Again, why?
Why are you, specifically you as an individual, enjoying other people’s upset, regardless of the source?
Complete agreement there. Clarity is extremely important, especially when the way they’re talking the system up, you’ll have to do a certain amount of Commitment to a single Covenant for its top end abilities.
That’s the big fear. That they’ll see 40% of the players gravitate toward Kyrian (for example) during one phase and so they think “well obviously Kyrian is too strong, so nerf them!”
Except Blizzard has a problem with fine tune nerfs and buffs. They bring out the sledgehammer when what they need is a fine scalpel.
So yes, that’s a big fear. That they’ll over-nerf or over-buff the covenants multiple times over the expansion. And when they do, we may be left holding a bag of stinky stuff.
I hope they keep the covenant choices with the big covenant abilities a meaningful choice.
I wouldn’t mind Covenants being a meaningful and real choice over the expansion. Not at all.
So long as they can manage to avoid their typical over-nerf and over-buff mentality they often use to try and ‘fix’ things.
I think if they jsut give everyone the class abilities and leave the big abilities to the covenant choice, that would make balancing easier.
I’ve been converted to the team of just giving people the covenant class abilties.
Here we are again reinventing the wheel.
Just go back to your everquest tendencies and I’ll be a happy camper.
Tier sets, no borrowed power, talent points, more stats, no item slot hijacking.
Boom.