Same amount of people would have virtually no wait if some of those hybrids actually did hybrid stuff.
Siege of Orgrimmar proved that what was called Heroic back in the day during Cata/MoP is what we would consider Mythic now, as your accomplishments in Heroic carried over to Mythic.
And there were plenty of 10-man Heroic boss fights that were not an instant wipe if you lost someone and then instantly BR’d them.
I keep having to repeat myself. 
And as I said:
And still more forgiving on 25 than 10.
Hard fights are hard, but hard fights are not the majority of the raid. Most raids will have only 2 raid bosses based on the SL paradigm. You still prog plenty of other fights.
Also, you could definitely lose someone during Painsmith or say Council of Blood during the non-final phase and be completely fine. Losing someone during the final burn is obviously bad but you should lose at that point.
It was perfectly fine game design when the standard raid size was 40-man. It’s was the downsizing of the raid that forced the change. The 25-man raid had ZERO problems with the design, because, surprise surprise, it was expected that they had a priest with them in the raid.
So all you 10 man proponents, tell me how you design 10 man Mythic G’huun and maintain the same level of difficulty as 20 man. The quality of fights only increases when you can rely on raids having more of each class. In a 10 man scenario, they simply wont design a fight that requires more than 1 slot to be a certain class. With 36 specs in the game, there just isn’t room anymore for 10 man mythic.
Regarding the roster boss, what do you think will happen? Guilds with 18 consistent people struggling with the roster boss will now have a full raid and 8 bench players. Most of that bench will quickly leave to get a permanent raid spot elsewhere and the original group is back to roster boss struggles.
Raid encounters have only gotten better when they require a fix set of 20. Flex raids or a 10 and 20 man version will just lead to some fights being vastly easier in one size vs the other.
I remember doing AOTC G’huun and actually having a MUCH harder time on 10-man than a week later when we merged with another guild and beat him again with 20 players.
It actually did though. I remember my guild in WOTLK only having 1 Priest and doing a different part of the raid because the lone Priest was late one night.
The only boss where “required class mechanics” are remotely okay in my mind is the final boss. I don’t really mind the final boss being designed around Lock Gates for instance. That’s pretty much the sole exception though. Anywhere else in the raid and it just becomes frustrating if you want to reclear and are missing someone for the night or you want to rotate people in to fill their Vault.
If you ask me, my opinion is that I wouldn’t. 10-man Mythic should have its own raids and its own fights.
Presumably he meant how would you design it that it was both beatable and also exactly as hard as 20-man.
Based on what you said, with 10-man being harder, the fight would be nigh-impossible if the 10-man Mythic version was that much harder than the 20-man Mythic version.
But those are the biggest obstacles in your way to the end goal CE, so that’s whats important. Vigilant guardian, skolex, and desausage mean nothing. Unless you’re in a guild whose end goal is to get hard stopped at the first wall in which case LMAO.
I should’ve specified that I’m talking after all brezzez have been used. That’s what “losing” a person means to me.
The impression I was getting from Thalia is he/she was implying that losing someone even for an instant set you so far back you would never recover.
Obviously if someone dies and you don’t have a BR you should wipe. I thought that was just common sense.
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I mean, that depends entirely on who you’re talking to lmao. Ulduar is widely considered the goat. It’s subjective.
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Yeah idk where they got that from but it’s incorrect.
In the scope of WoW subs every single mythic raiders could quit and sub count would barely move.
Painting it like 10 man mythic would save WoW is dillusional.
I’d prefer to see flex scaling brought to Mythic Raids. Not as extreme as we have with Heroic which scales from 10 to 30 but more like 18 to 22 or at most 15 to 25.
That would help a lot of Guilds that deal with the attendance Boss and it would let Guilds bring in benched players when they have more than 20 on for any given night.
And open it up to cross server from day one.
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Ulduar was so good, had both 10 and 25 man, and could trigger hard modes on a fight by fight basis. Lacking something for a specific fight, do it normally, have the right setup to do the hard mode, go for it. I would love to see all raids use that concept. 2 set number of players and the group can make it as easy or hard as they want.
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I specifically said mythic. The orb mechanic is significantly different between the two difficulties.
Most of us are kidding ourselves if we’re under the illusion that if Mythic was 10 man then we’d be doing Mythic raiding.
Mythic isn’t inaccessible due to the team size. It’s inaccessible due to the difficulty and commitment. That does not change if it’s moved to 10 man.
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10-man Raiding is dead because 10-man raiding leads to cul-de-sac. Guilds that don’t raid typically disband or at the very least maintain low retention, and if you’re a 10-man guild and you hit AOTC you’re done for the tier. Last I’ve seen something like 20% of the player-base picks up AOTC on average.
There would be so many 10-man AOTC guilds that formed if 10-man Mythic actually existed, as feeder guilds would begin to form for 10-man raiders looking to hop from AOTC guilds into Mythic 10-man, 10-man Normal Mode guilds forming to feed into THOSE guilds, etc.
You only need to look at the popularity of 10-man raiding during WOTLK to know that 10-man Mythic would be a big deal.
I don’t really think “most” is what matters. Myself and many I push keys with would raid Mythic or raid Mythic more consistently / across more tiers if 10-man Mythic existed. And I’m sure the same is true for a lot of M+ players.
They had to re-use hard mode activation mechanics in the same raid…
You think that it wouldn’t get old after over 100 raid bosses that have come out since then?
“Oh look it’s the ‘don’t kill adds hard mode mechanic again’ or ‘hey it’s a council with a certain kill order’ so original.
Maybe they could have us accept/reject buffs that would be original.
eh no, hes absollutely correct.
Most of these people are classic andys LOL, irrelevant and unskilled garbage still clinging onto the relics they once were.
People thought 25s would solve the issue of 40 man raiding…and thought 20 would solve the issue of 25 man raiding…the fact of the matter is as raids get harder and harder the number of people competing shrinks over time. 10 man sure are easier to organize but that doesnt mean a tightly tuned 10 man will garner same attention, look at 10 man majordomo from Firelands, there were so many complains in the 10 man version and people didnt wanna do it. Its always been “whats easier” and not what raid size it is.
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