Just saw the video “the fall of 10man raiding” and the comments are just filled from top to bottom of people who are saying they would come back for 10 man, I’ve never seen such a unanimous prospect in the wow community. and I agree. I don’t think 10man and 20man can coexist because balance but 10man should’ve been chosen over 20. Or a new type of end game content for 8-10 people for high level gear.
I have seen probably over a hundred people now quit the game due to 20man mythic recruitment revolving door. People that don’t have 8000 hours to recruit and dedicate to getting 20 random players to mesh they get stuck at 15 core raiders and the last 5 keep leaving, guild dies because they can’t progress, it’s some of those players 3rd and 4th guilds dying due to 20man and they quit the game. These players who would otherwise still be subbed and playing if they could access end game content not at 20 player cap.
I believe WoW is one of the ONLY mmos out there still requiring 20 people to raid and there is a reason. ESO, FF, Lost Ark, etc all do 8-10man raiding. It’s just sad to see how many people I have seen quit specifically to this and then seeing how many people are basically just on the sideline waiting for 10man to come back.
Gathering 20 also makes the game less social imo. Usually in 20man groups it’s the 10people anyway who are “in the clique” and the remaining guys are typically stragglers just there to force the 20 requirement. People are being seen more and more as a number now than a raider because youre not here because of you, youre here because we have 19 and desperately need a 20 before tuesday or our guild will literally die.
20-man raiding is fine. Blizzard should just stop trying to cut corners and deliver both 20-man raids and also traditional 10-man style raids. Smaller, tight nit raids that are not the larger scale.
Ion claims again and again that mega-dungeons are supposed to be like 10-man raiding and they just aren’t. They really, really, REALLY aren’t. If we got actual 5-man raiding, sweet, but mega-dungeons are not and have not ever been that. People want to raid, but without being beholden to the logistics involved in a 20-man guild.
Just to clarify if anyone is mistaken, I DO NOT WANT 10-MAN MYTHIC VERSIONS OF THE CURRENT RAIDS. They don’t have the same vibe that the “made for 10-man” raids had, they’ll never be tuned properly to match, Blizzard is limited in what kind of mechanics that they can do, so on and so forth.
10 and 25 probably could’ve coexisted but Blizzard just half assed it like they always do. They didn’t put any real effort into tuning and just got rid both.
Somethings going to change. Static 20 isn’t working.
Highly doubt, one that’s an unprovable statement and two it’s impacting the current player base, players that are subbed as of this xpac so they can’t possible be not playing for years because they are currently playing the game. So it’s not just spectators complaining to complain when it’s impacting our current populations.
Another doubt seeing as how 10man survived all the way to WoD and I don’t remember comments mentioning it either. In fact, I do remember them specifically denouncing classic because of 40man raids. Alot of the comments after a quick scroll through review appear to be from cata/mop players/fans which would make sense since that’s when the content was removed.
They keep making megadungeon bosses CRAZY because they want megadungeons to be like old small group raiding was. I’d prefer they stop doing that or give actual mythic rewards for M0 megadungeons. Nobody wants to prog on bosses in keys with a timer.
Unfortunately, if it’s anything like how Blizz handles their other IPs. It won’t change until the game is a couple months from going on life support. With both Heroes of the Storm and Overwatch they let those games populations and support get basically non-existantly low before they started trying to revive them. For overwatch, it more or less worked although it will never return to it’s peak but it’s stable and fairly popular (even before the OW2 surge). For heroes, it was too little too late and they shut it down.
I wonder which WoW will be
Blizz has a bad habit of sticking to their guns until they are physically held down and forced to change something.
They should have. 10m was vastly more popular due to obvious reasons. 20m has so many issues in terms of logistics. A LOT more people would engage in mythic raid content if there was a 10m option. I also know some people who entirely quit after they killed off 10m mythic.
10m mythic would be innately easier than 20m because there’s less people to coordinate. Having only 10man would also restrict their boss design since they can’t assume you have access to every class like they can on 20m. 20man mythic is fine as it is.
Aha. And why were bosses in MoP mainly SOO for example much harder on 10m than 25m? Or how about prenerf Anduin on NM/HC which was significantly harder than on 20m+? Its bullcrap and you know it.
You have less people to coordinate but those people also carry much more responsibility. You have less tools at your disposable, less br and less room for error. Its a tuning thing nothing more so stop with this wrong thought that 10m in general is easier.
Its easier on your nerves and fun because you can actually enjoy the game and take on its challenges instead of artifical barriers and gatekeeping like logistics on player numbers you have to maintain. Im sure you are not part of a Mythic raiding guild AND maintain its roster by constantly searching for recruits? Its kinda worse than real life HR because you don’t earn any money. You are supposed to have fun.
What’s so diff about 10 man raids and flex 10 man raids that’s positive? 10mans put too much pressure on the 6 DPS and if 1 died twice or more, it was over…wipe. Flex raids allows for more then 10 people to be part of the guild and raid and not wait for “a spot to open”. 10 man raids were toxic in everyway.
20 man is way better than 10 man, but Flexible format is the way to go. Requiring any specific number just means that you have to exclude your friends at best, or your guild dies out due to not enough attendance at worst. I’m so sick of joining guilds, making new friends, then the guild dying out and everyone being sad about going our separate ways.
Already done that 3 times this expansion, I’m so sick of it. They should keep mythic at 20-man for the world first race but once the hall of fame fills up switch it to flexible format
10 is no easier than 20 to coordinate. The problem is never finding X people, whatever X is.
No matter what X is, the problem is always that at the start of the tier you have plenty of people and have to exclude people from the raid, and then later in the tier when things get stale you don’t have enough attendance to fill your raid.
The feeling of raiding has changed a lot. In the last 2 xpacs my enjoyment of raiding all the time has reduced a lot to the point, I pretty much quit this last tier because I am just not enjoying it anymore. I don’t think it would matter what size the party is anymore; it is how it is designed now days that has had a huge effect on players’ feelings towards wanting to dedicate themselves to raiding anymore.
I would love to see a Wrath 10 man difficulty return for the smaller guilds, and possibly even PuG friendliness. Ran more raids, both with a guild and PuG’ed during Wrath, and almost always was 10 man because it was so easy to set up.
besides its completely irrelevant. The only silly thing is your comment.