No, it’s really not. LFR takes a good 40 mins minimum to 2.5 hours to get a group. Why? It’s so dumb. Should be 1 tank and healers and dps rest… it’s insanely long
interesting.
i would want more than 20. it’s always a bit sad when it’s time to cut to 20 for mythic.
didnt even think there were ppl that would want LESS.
there are way too many different ppl playing this game lol. no way to make everyone happy.
*what about flex 10 to 40? just have the devs figure it out lol
Wasn’t the issue with 10m raiding was that they couldn’t tune it correctly? It was either too easy or too hard. Never had a middle-ground.
That’s not a 20 man issue. It’s more people can’t be bothered to tank or heal one.
Yes but not in the way that you think.
Mythic raids are tuned to have specific classes or specs in them, similar to how the old 40 and 25-man raids assumed you had one of every class, and were designed with that in mind. You simply can not have every class in a 10-man mythic raid, and therefore, the entire design purpose of mythic raids would be forfeit.
An easy example is wotlk nax 10-man. For razuvious, there was no guarantee that a raid could have a priest that was able to mind control the students, so blizz added the MC devices. Blizz had to add AN ENTIRELY NEW MECHANIC just to accommodate a raid having less players.
So, very little chance they do that for an 10-man mythic raid. It’s simply not happening.
How is this not 20 man issue? There’s virtually no benefit to having 20 mans at all. None. Same amount of people doing content, just longer wait now for everyone.
Yeah but not one raid in this game has ever required every class. Not one.
But encounters require SPECIFIC classes. The point is that any raid encounter could potentially require ANY class or spec in the game in order to defeat it. And it’s likely that a 10-man group, for one of those encounters, will NOT have that class or spec on hand.
And if you are either going to have a bench of people to play a certain class or spec, or have people with alts, to play those classes or specs, then why not just play with 20 people?!
I like 20 man, but honestly, the roster boss is the biggest issue when it comes to mythic raiding. You have your top guilds who are pushing server top 20’s and HOF, but the majority of smaller guilds either stop bothering to aspire to mythic because they just cant maintain a 20 man -mythic- capable lineup on a week to week basis, or end up being forced to constantly reprog and trial new people which pushes them further behind and towards the end of a tier alot of guilds are left having to go on break because of burn out and end up losing half their team by the next tier so it cycles through.
20 man is fun but 10 man was more easily managed for smaller, close knit guilds and friend groups. Heck even dropping it to 15 would open up mythic raiding to so many more people. It doesnt sound like alot but 5 people can really be a big difference between the experience people have playing the game.
And I’d argue the fight was badly designed for hinging on the use of one specific ability from one specific class.
Just don’t design bad boss fights.
That said, I’ve already mentioned I would prefer if 10-man raids were their own raids and not just downscaled versions of 20-man raids. If Blizzard wants to design fights that rely on Lock Gates or Gorefiend’s Grasp on Mythic, so be it, and if 10-mans were their own raids it wouldn’t be a problem.
mmm youd end up with a similar situation to high end mythic raiding where people will take whatever the meta class is for that tier/fight and it means your raid team either need to gear and maintain multiple classes and specs and more importantly be capable of multi speccing to a competent level to compete in a mythic setting, or you need to bench and swap in people based on the encounter. It just means youd be taking the class/spec not the player just to get the content down.
Bad game design 
You see, that can work if you have MILLIONS (like 4-5) playing the game. But WoW doesn’t have that anymore.
So now, we’re starting to actually feel the repercussions of 20 mans implementation. Unless DF is a miraculous expansion that brings back and retains 3-5 million people, static 20 man cannot be the only choice. I promise you, something will change.
They have to stop making alting a huge chore.
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Mythic was tuned around 20 to give greater chance at success, because in 10 man, you lose one player to a mistake, you’re usually screwed and have to wipe it. Having 20 is slightly more forgiving.
Not necessarily. And as I said above, it’s less forgiving.
Exactly.
This would require too much for Mythic raiding. They wanted Mythic static across the board, for equal challenge. Easier to tune.
Pretty sure you still get a BR in 1-mans.
Irrelevant. You lost time and DPS or healing fell behind, etc. Battle Rez never saved everything.
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You’re right. But so be it. Like I said, the game needs to be several times more alt friendly. The chores are killing this game.
Eh, we’re doing that now but most people aren’t even complaining about that part. IMO, we need to stop making so many fights that require dumb**** like lock gate anyway.
Fotm will always be a thing but Blizzard also needs to put some actual effort into tuning classes closer.
Depends on the fight. Obviously on an end-boss this is true but not on a lot of other fights that are more generous on their tuning.
People on this forum greatly, greatly, GREATLY over-exaggerate how tightly tuned Mythic is. Especially if a fight has had any kind of nerf of any variety whatsoever (which is basically every fight that has ever come out since Blizzard often does sweeping nerfs to raids).
Indicating “not always.”
I’m not speaking of current Mythic when talking about how 10 man worked. Because Mythic didn’t exist back then. I’m talking about how 10 man worked.
This isn’t entirely true. Depends on the fight of course but the only fights that matter are the hard ones (Halondrus pre nerf, Anduin, Jailer). If you lose 1 person it’s almost always a wipe.
oh, I completely agree, the grind in general is just too much, im personally a big fan of account wide rep purely to make alts a lil easier. Theres nothing more boring that having to grind the same rep for the 5th time just to unlock an ability on that toon because you need to have it ready for raid.
And yeah, 100% think having a fight that is basically unkillable without a specific class ability is bad game design. Abilities should be useful and great to have, but you shouldnt have to essentially either bench someone or make them change toons just so your group can get past an encounter. And every class/spec should be viable for high end without it being a liability.
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