Most people who use/run/reference sims understand the caveats involved. It’s primarily people who want to argue in bad faith who take them as gospel.
Sims are the best baseline and use an average of thousands of iterations. Sims do not account for Godlike RNG Cleave using CDs in situations where bosses take increased dmg ect. They are still the best tool we have atm. Looking at the top warriors in the world they can certainly already pump when being funneled gear and played around but this is not your typical situation most people if they post their own logs will have their warriors near or at the bottom and even then buff prot warriors into a competitive tank. Prot warrior feels squishy with less cds and great aoe snap threat which turns into no threat on extended aoe pulls.
Interesting point. People in charge of running sims are at least trying to be as accurate as possible.
I’m not saying that they don’t have value. It’s just one of those “grain of salt” deals.
Yeah ofc all top parses are likely far above the simmed dps with exceptions like freya or yogg. either way my point keeps being missed I dont even care about fury because they may scale into monsters as people suspect but give prot warrior some love its so bad.
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…wait … what? Prot warriors were 2nd?!
Prot warriors were the meme tank spec of TBC and only used as the entry point for tanking in Phase 1 raids which even was skipped because guilds didn’t want to deal with the hassle and just started gearing up tank paladins. The prot warrior was replaced even near the end of phase 1 because paladins and druids started to get their tank spike. The tank warrior phase 2 tier set was their only viable and best set and even then it wasn’t worth to bring a prot warrior at all.
TBC Prot warriors didn’t have threat, not good enough mitigation, couldn’t even do their one big job and Sunder Armor since IMP exposed armor was bigger, better, and made a whole lot of difference. All prot warriors had was last stand and shield wall which is laughable because the druid had more HP in general, and just better dodge to not need last stand. Tankadins at phase 2+ could do a prot warrior’s job and even better, and AoE. Just like now in Wrath.
Prot paladins also sky rocketed due to being able to keep up their shield block on all the time, and their threat being insane with spell damage. Raids could easily keep a well geared and powerful tankadin up in Hyjal and beyond. The only fight they couldn’t tank was Brutallus, that’s it, just that fight. They replaced warriors so hard that guides were made to ensure prot paladins would tank Illidan and not Warriors, and just interuppted Lust in RoS to make sure Prot warriors would not come in.
The argument isn’t even prot warriors were viable, it’s who was the better tank between paladins and druids for TBC. So if we’re going by logic of “Well X spec should be great because of Vanilla or previous expansion” why does that not apply to warriors? Being the worst prot spec in TBC by leagues far.
Let’s continue down that rabbit hole. Fury Warriors become so great in ICC, however so do Ret Paladins. All Ret Paladins need is their 2 piece set and they explode to near the top. Why do Ret paladins get a buff now, and Fury Warrior is left in the dust? If we’re going by “oh it’ll be great by ICC” logic.
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Can confirm Prot warrior was actually complete trash in TBC. The only thing I was ever used for is tanking Illidan when our prot pally was on vacation since bear couldn’t do it reliably lol.
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100% shield block uptime would be a bit much. The armor part though is good, converting X% of block value to armor would be a solid but not over the top buff.
At least we had our moment spell reflecting Muru blueberries.
Yet the nerf pallies got due to the last tier was fine? Sit down you monkey!
Viability definition:
The state of being viable; capability of living
Sounds to me like prot paladins are too viable by your own definition.
Edit: Nobody cares about paladin’s opinions on the topic, ironic you call me the monkey when a monkey could play paladin tank.
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Brutallus. Where propallys where the only spec able to solotank, was the fight protpallys could not tank ?
Im confused now 
I mean i main protpally since BC, i would´ve been one earlier, but bloodelfes needed to be a thing first.
Brutallus was not a problem at all, right from the start of sunwell, at this point Protpally was already scaling so hard, it was laughable.
Same with the claim that Bears will be “the number 1 LK HC tank” - they wont.
Protpally scales too hard in Wrath, has the highest Real EHP of all tanks, but since people still believe EHP is the equation of HP,Armor and Flat dmg reduce and blissfully ignore other talents/mechanics (since they are harder to calculate), it will fly right over their heads.
Protpally is stronger than the other tanks in Wotlk, thats just a simple fact.
Now, wether or not they should be nerfed is a whole other story.
I would much rather prefer some buffs on other tanks, then nerfing protpallys, and that is not because im a protpally main, but because nerfing protpallys would be more of a general nerf to Raiding, which is bad.
Also im really missing constructive feedback on how to nerf Protpallys - tbh protpallys have so many areas that make them strong, nerfing them would not be an easy task.
Protipp: Just taking the cheat death away from AD would not even be a real nerf to Protpally.
It’s so crazy how y’all invent these nerfs and buffs.
It’s not really hard to imagine, given we play the game after all.
You dont need a shield to tank kael thas, just dps his shield fast enuff to kick pyro if i remember correctly
Block value set eats up most of his attack. Critical block turns my little 1k BV into 4.2k BV. Of course warrior would be even more viable if they would put shield block back on its 6 second cd.
There’s two effective nerfs that prot paladins could receive.
Holy Shield-makes this a 1 minute cool down to be equivalent to warriors. Nobody would complaina bout that one at all and it would make both play equally with block.
This inturn will create the second nerf. Prot paladins should not be able to multi stack all mitigations. In comparison.
Warrior has to stack as much block as possible to be vieable. Or the build a survive set. To which they have no shield block and rely on parry/dodge. At that point they become DKs. Just not as strong.
Point being, paladins push way too much mitigation and can buff their stats better than all classes. Force them to build more block, like warriors and take away their ability to multi stack mitigation. That gives them a clear advantage.
Or
Buff warrior.shield block and reverse the atrocity they committed. Next, make last stand scale and have a threshold activation (kind of like ardent Defender). Lastly, buff all of their debuffs (demo shout, thunder clap, tend) where they can be used similarly to tank more effectively.
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Warrior has 40 second shieldblock cooldown, and critical block.
1 Minute would not bring that on par.
On the other hand, thinking that Holy Shield is highly impactful is a fallacy in the understanding of Protpallys.
The defensive building is actually quite the same when it comes to warriors and pallys.
I currently am down to 1200 blockvalue nearing protpally bis gear, since dodge/parry > blockvalue on every encounter where tankdmg actually matters.
The only spot in all of wotlk classic where blockgear matters is Anub in the next content, and i even doubt that this actually will be necessary nowadays.
Now this is the most specific classbuff i´ve ever read, and would totally ignore DK´s and Ferals, that also need love to get closer to protpallys.
And its also something that just will not ever happen.
The tank debuffs of AP/Attackspeed are similar with all tankclasses that can apply said debuffs, and theres a reason for that - boss encounters are designed with those debuffs in mind.
A more than 20% Attckspeed reduction from Thunderclap would be absolutely massive, opening a broader window of opportunity to apply heals on the tank, and changing the ore mechanics of dmg taken for all the tanks.
Also, unless you also drastically buff the other aspects of a warrior or nerf the protpally, buffind the debuffs of warriors would just result in a debuffbot warrior situation like in TBC, and in the end the protpally would still be the tank, and the warrior the debuffbot.
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