Heroics. Their intended destination is post-squish heroics. Just squint and pretend to see “Mythic” when you queue, because they’re essentially “queuable pre-DFs4 low key mythics,” but that’s too much of a mouthful.
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Oh same, i grew up in BRD and BC heroics so i was, as the youths would say, vibing, with them so the change meant nothing to me.
Which i think is really dumb because you cant compare the two in the slightest. Heroics are just not the same at all compared to Mythic in terms of difficulty jump, loot, mechanics, and even reason for doing them. A lot of people enjoy racing the clock or the added affixes.
Don’t really care for delves tbh. Would definitely like to see follower dungeons expanded to at least heroic mode. Too bad they made them useless pretty much after doing a dungeon quest, and for an insignificant amount of stones. Wouldn’t surprise me if follower dungeons end up becoming another abandoned feature eventually which is sad, because they have potential to be more endgame content for folks that don’t want to be grouped with nerd raging neckbeards with that go go rush, and spaz out over a wipe bs.
I also think they are a bit under tuned for the ilvl they give. But its not a big deal.
I run a lot of keys and push 20s every season. When you think about the nerf to dungeon scaling.
An 8 delves gives what would be like a what? +15 m+?
Currently they equal a +5.
Its not an issue per say, but I did run into a problem. I enjoyed delves so much that when I actually jumped into keys, the 1 to 5 range was absolutely worthless in terms of gear.
So if you fully gear out from delves, next step is +6 keys.
Pretty considerable jump in difficulty having timed a few 5s and 6s.
We’ll see.
I don’t want delves’ rewards reduced / downgraded. I just think the ceiling should be raised. Getting 616 (Hero 3/6) from a T8 delve is like getting 629 (Myth 3/6) loot from a M+6 or +7.
There are affixes, minibosses present in tiers 9+ for Delves that players don’t have to interact with at all, to get the highest loot from that content. Why is that?
Instead, making the Hero track GV rewards from delves come off tier10 feels more in-line with the usual risk vs reward structuring. This way players engage with the additional mechanics that were designed to come from delves, and are rewarded appropriately for succeeding.
Which is the only reason M+ appeared so “popular”, where the truth was that only a fraction of the people running M+ actually enjoyed the gogo timer rng affix rubbish.
Everyone else only ran M+ because it was by far the easiest way to get high ilvl gear for relatively little effort.
Now that it’s no longer a trivial source of loot that invalidated all other forms of content outside of mythic raids, people are free to run other things. And M+ participation has dropped off a cliff.
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Or, could it be that delves unlock heroic vault drops and equivalent M+ does not?
People aren’t doing delves because they prefer them, they’re doing them because the rewards and gear path is superior.
There’s no incentive to do the bottom half of M+ when delves:
Can be done solo
Don’t require coordination with other players
Are far easier in difficulty
Reward higher gear
Or maybe instead of a lie it’s reading between the lines. What are they asking for by asking for the rewards in delves to be lessened, which was literally done in this thread.
Yeah, sorry. They’re not outright saying it, but they’re definitely in favor of delve rewards being neutered to the point they’re M0 or below so lesser M+ supposedly gets more participants. It’s exactly what they’re arguing for when they write about lesser M+ being dead, whether you want to call it a lie or not.
Edit - And as I was writing this the dude above me implied the same.
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It also helps a solo player like me to complete quests in dungeons.
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YES! Or that silly weekly for rep in Dornogal near thw WQ giver by the inn. Anytime I get that I just run follower dungeons.
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Based on whose skill cap level? Casuals, or Hardcores?
Edit: typos
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If you want to use skill cap, then it’s good vs bad players, and casual/hardcore has nothing to do with it.
Maybe M+ people need to be asking for their rewards to be bumped instead of asking for delves to be changed.
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That’s a dodge.
It’s definitely casual skill cap or hardcore skilled cap, because those are the descriptions that match the human beings actually doing delves.
Unless you think all casuals are bad and all hardcores are good?
So I ask you again, whose skill cap do we use as a ruler and measuring stick against if something is too hard or not?
I’m so glad you personally asked every single person participating in delves and gathered that data to make this statement. I’m sure you’re not talking out something else…
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Agreed 100%.
Game is awesome, Delves are awesome, History Mode is amazing because let us finish the questlines solo.
Great stuff.
And for those saying “mehhh get your solo out of my mmo”… I am sorry but solo players are already the big numbers around Azeroth, they are the ones who keep the subs wbile raiders get a sub, do everything and unsub waiting to sub again few months ahead.
There is a reason Skyrim is still today one of the most played games in Steam.
Solo players keep the money flowing.
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Absolutely!
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There are numerous players who some would identify as “casual” that know their toolkits, use interrupts, use defensives, know how to split a pack, pull properly, know when to burst or when to hold it, etc. and then there are players who don’t do any of that.
I can ask for a definition of “casual” right now and then 20 different responses from 20 players.
We have 20 years of game history to show that players will take the path of least resistance every time
But you and I both know you could still answer my question if you wanted to, as there is enough consensus over what those two terms mean.
You are purposely not answering because you know it would make my point, so your dodging.