There will be no reparations

My blatant click bait of a title is also obviously purely speculation on my part. However, judging from what we have seen in beta up to this point so close to launch, I’m inclined to dismiss the fervent calls for reparations from the Horde or retaliation against them barring that. As far as BfA went, the pendulum swung to sweep the Horde’s legs out from under them without actually addressing Teldrassil, and in Shadowlands the pendulum sings the other way to address Teldrassil without sweeping the legs out from under the Horde.

Shadowlands repeatedly brings up and even at points retells the story of the burning of Teldrassil, and Blizzard is going to lengths to continue that story. Not just from informing denizens of the Shadowlands of the burning, but also by saving Night Elf souls en masse from the Maw, to showing named NPCs that players that have leveled through Teldrassil would recognize show up and give their two cents on their deaths and what their afterlives may be going forward. And I can only hope for more of their stories to continue throughout the patches of Shadowlands.

But we have seen little, if relatively anything, about the Horde, spare a few snarls from Tyrande at them. And even there, where Tyrande growls, she doesn’t even look over her shoulder at the Horde leaders or even the Horde Night Fae aligned player, instead running right after Sylvanas. And the Horde wants it exactly this way as well.

We had these lines in Shadows Rising:

    Thrall reminded them. “Not all of the Horde stood with her that day.”

    “And yet she spoke for your side, acted for your side,” Maiev shot back. “The warchief is the voice of the Horde, the hand of the Horde, but now you have scattered yourselves to a council, dispersing the blame, hiding behind cowardly revision of history that will not be forgotten!”

And that’s exactly what we’re getting. The story of Teldrassil not being forgotten. But the Horde hiding from it, to the point of absence from the story. Just like the Horde did nothing of significance during Warlords of Draenor following Mists of Pandaria, Shadowlands so far echoes this trend as much as BfA echoed Garrosh’s running the Horde into the ground.

To those saying that’s not enough, that you don’t accept it, that you are still upset: That’s exactly what Blizzard wants. Blizzard wants you here ranting and raving. Wants you to be a dot of data they can point at an call passionate.

For even in continuing Teldrassil’s story, Blizzard is intent on throwing elements that sting in, even beyond the Horde’s being allowed to huddle with its head in the sand until the world walks by. Unless things have changed in the beta from last I checked, even some of the Night Elves in the Maw do not get saved, but rather get turned into an amalgamation for which the only salvation is oblivion. And Blizzard wants these elements tied into the Shadowlands. Blizzard wants you to be sad.

    Danuser stresses that the Shadowlands has stakes. After seeing Ursoc and other characters die in the Shadowlands, fans have wondered if there’s another destination for souls. The answer is no. “The destruction of the soul is very real,” Danuser explains. “There are real things at stake here. And if these spirits like Ursoc are not protected and nurtured, they’ll be lost forever.”

    The innocent souls who have been funneled into the Maw thanks to the schemes of Sylvanas and the Jailer are in great peril as well. “There are many souls that have been funneled into the Maw that the Jailer has forged into weapons or monstrosities, and they’re just gone,” Danuser says.

In this way, Blizzard is looking to be able to say it has addressed the story of Teldrassil, yet specifically in a way looking to not give you satisfaction. Blizzard wants to say, look, Teldrassil has not been forgotten.

For it is the Horde that has been forgotten instead, as Blizzard is no more capable of addressing the Horde’s involvement thereat than Blizzard is capable of addressing the giant sword still sticking out of Silithus.



From the Horde, there surely won’t be any more reparations. From a meta perspective, they have all been absolved of their crimes when they blamed Sylvanas for it and the Alliance accepted that.

What should’ve happened though is that the Horde withdraws from Ashenvale and have their druids and shamans help regrow the lands they have destroyed and/or blighted. Also they should be helping to bring Sylvanas and her loyalists to justice, instead they’re hiding the loyalists behind the “Sylvanas did it”. They should also be helping to free the Night Elf souls from the maw which in Shadowlands, they don’t play any part in.

The problem though is that even in the maw, many Night Elf souls are being permanently obliterated, so Sylvanas and the Horde can’t come out and say something along the lines of “See, nobody was hurt I was all doing it for the greater good” with it making sense. Not only were those souls tortured for who knows how long, many are also permanently gone. Also… they’re still dead.
That obviously doesn’t stop Blizzard from doing it as they have already stated in interviews, but it’s still pretty bad writing to justify genocide like that and write the story around genocide being a heroic thing.

Things like the withdrewal from Ashenvale aren’t even real reparations, the Horde shouldn’t have been able to keep the zone in the first place, yet it was completely ignored in the story while Tyrande also had been absent in important patches like 8.2 or 8.2.5. I guess she just disappeared completely during that time.

Lastly, I think it would go a long way if Thrall (and the Horde) helped bring Sylvanas to justice as he promised it, but since it’s not really possible to bring a self insert mary sue to justice, I don’t think the Horde will ever be able to atleast somewhat make up for it.
It would help the story a lot if something like that was possible though, for both sides, but they’d rather hurt the overall narrative to shove Sylvanas further down our throat and redeem her of her crimes (by sweeping the crimes under the rug).

RIP Night Elf souls then


Sums it up perfectly.

They want to be able to say that Teldrassil has been resolved without actually resolving it. It’s similar as to 8.1 if you think about it. There they said the Night Elves got their revenge while showing the opposite, and now they’re going to let us free a few souls while others get obliterated and say that it has been resolved.

All that while keeping the Horde and Sylvanas unscarred, while completely ignoring that they commited those crimes.

To be fair, I guess they do have to sweep Teldrassil under the rug since they are going to redeem Sylvanas soon and absolve her off all of her crimes.
Commiting genocide and burning innocents and children alive to torture and obliterate their souls doesn’t go too well in a Sylvanas redemption, so they’ll just write that off and make sure nobody remembers.

I think you somehow misread something, as, well, Blizzard is doing anything but this.


In terms of justice and responsibility they’re doing it. You said it in your op too. They’re letting us free a bunch of souls in a questline that doesn’t draw much attention to it, but they’re pretending that nobody is responsible for Teldrassil by making the Horde and Sylvanas both immune to facing any justice for it.
Even worse, absolving them of their crimes entirely and making the only one that still wants justice (Tyrande) be in severe danger and possibly die.
That’s why I said that they are sweeping it under the rug in terms of Sylvanas and the Horde, because they don’t want to give the Night Elves any justice for it, and they know that they are going to redeem Sylvanas too. This way, they can say that Teldrassil has been resolved (few souls saved) without actually giving us the promised justice for Teldrassil.


I’m not even sure what to say about this any more.

You’ve pointed it out well. Blizz wants us to feel emotion from their story… and the easiest cop out way of doing it is destroying a nation, desecrating the souls of the innocent night elves, making the horde an accomplice to it… then pretending they were the victims and Sylvanas forced them to do it… except the horde continued to serve her until she brought a dead guy to life…

The thing is, there is literally nothing the players can do about this. Blizzard wrote the horde into a corner with a point of no return, and the night elves will likely never get their deserved justice.

For an expansion that turned out to be just another old god incursion, why was it necessary to jump start a faction war by destroying the two capitals and decimating a race? We could’ve had the same story without it. They wanted to tug on the heart strings but they butchered the execution. Which is textbook blizzard. Make a giant climax… but completely fail at the resolution.


Quite the opposite. The storyline seems to continue, and these Night Elves in particular seem to get special treatment in Ardenweald. Where as most souls take on animal shapes in Ardenweald, the named NPCs saved from the Maw that arrived there from the War of the Thorns and the burning of Teldrassil have gotten to stay in Night Elf forms.


Because some chose to stay in Night Elf forms. That said, some of them chose animal forms too, like Ferryn.
Unsure about the storyline continuing, since the covenant campaign ends there. Also as for the revenge, justice part, we already know that nothing CAN come out of it.

Ferryn is a Druid, and can seemingly still shapeshift even in the afterlife:


My guess is that you’re not limited to a single selection for the rest of your afterlife, and everyone’s effectively a ghost druid once you settle in there.

Edit: Imagine how bad it’d be if it was permanent and you had a bad Ghostbusters moment where the first thing that popped into your head was a cockroach or something instead of that cool dragon you would have chosen.

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Plausible, or at least the player gets to unlock multiple forms.

To be honest I’m mostly satisfied with the night elf story post-8.0. Other than giving the night elves a new capital in Nordrassil (or wherever it is they end up) there’s not much else I want.

In terms of revenge:

  1. The kaldorei and worgen tag-teamed the Horde army out of Darkshore sans help from the wider Alliance, after being told off by Anduin for wanting to do so.
  2. Nathanos is sent scurrying out of the warfront by Tyrande after she soloes him and his val’kyr, dark rangers, dark wardens and dreadguard soldiers.
  3. Then Tyrande follows him back to his home and kills him.
  4. Thrall goes to the night elves in Shadows Rising like a supplicant seeking forgiveness, filling his pants at the thought of the kaldorei coming after the Horde in future, asking how he can possibly make things right.
  5. Sylvanas’ whole regime is undone, her people are a refugee race being babysat by Calia, and her loyalists are being rounded up, chained and imprisoned throughout Orgrimmar.

So, realistically, what’s left to give? Ideally there’d be some content showing the night elves rebuilding, but that sort of content should be made for all races with half-destroyed zones (which is nearly all of them).

Stuff like getting in grunts to rebuild Astranaar or w/e just seems pointless when Malfurion can snap his fingers and regrow Darkshore’s forest. Labour isn’t an issue.


Sylvanas? Like isn’t that obvious? Justice can’t be achieved because Sylvanas can never lose.

Also obviously Ashenvale


Blizzard has annoyingly avoided mentioning Ashenvale even more than anything else.

But, yes, obviously Tyrande living and Sylvanas dying would be nice. Neither really have relevance to the Horde, though. Unless Blizzard actually does something with Thrall and Baine after their rescue.


Sylvanas isn’t the Horde’s to give, and what about Ashenvale? Neither Ashenvale nor Lordaeron are explicitly said to be back in their respective factions’ hands, yet Shadows Rising and the 8.3 cinematics don’t make sense if they’re both still occupied. It would be nice to see the zone revamped but most of Azeroth is in need of a revamp, so I’m not particularly bothered.

Well she is Horde after all, I don’t really count her out since she’s going to rejoin the Horde anyway after her redemption.

They would make sense if the Night Elves just gave up on Ashenvale or forgot about it.

An increasingly paranoid subset of the playerbase seems intent to believe that Sylvannas is going to get a pass for her actions.

It seems quite clear to me that Blizzard is going to shove the full karmic bill onto her instead. The only possible kind of redemption for Sylvannas would be one that results in her final death.


It’s not really about being paranoid, it’s straight up what the writers said in interviews and it fits well with the whole self insert and simp for Sylvanas thing the writers have been going with in BfA.

It seems the opposite to me. They absolved the Horde of their crimes so that Sylvanas can serve as a scapegoat temporarily. Then when she gets absolved of all her crimes too, nobody will be to blame for Teldrassil anymore and they’ll see it as resolved.


I have the distinct feeling the two of you and Elesana are all the same person :thinking:


I was going to say the same thing.