Again, that’s my point. Anduin sends THE PLAYER to save Darkshore and I guess Tyrande is too busy snobcrying because he won’t send literal trash mob soldiers???
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Yeah, and sorry for pulling this up again, but it’s worth repeating.
Forget Malfurion’s 1v4. Apparently any night elf can do that… But the problem is we don’t see that. We keep getting TOLD that the Horde takes (ludicrous) losses for every night elf they kill. Which basically makes everyone mad, because Horde is (understandably) upset that it apparently takes TEN FREAKING HORDE SOLDIERS DYING to kill one night elf. And the night elf fangirls (and boys) mad because we barely see that in game. Instead, when we see a night elf, they’re usually going to die tragically or need our help to prevent their tragic deaths.
We’ve got to quest, but still, it seems like night elves top the “Oh no, save us, hero!” charts.
Which is also not helping the Horde, because if the night elves always need help, and yet EIGHT HORDE SOLDIERS GET MURDERED FOR EVERY MEMBER OF THE DARNASSUS CITY GUARD THEY CAN KILL (not even the night elves’ elite), woof. Not exactly a great Horde Pride feeling. I have to admit, BFA has pushed me thoroughly blue instead of my previous dusky purple.
Harumph.
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Same.
/5char
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cannot tell if wants the comic industry out of jobs or just has serious face very well attached
Yeah it’s insane, blizzard seems to fail both factions in the faction war. Horde victories never feel right because they are always portrayed as being Pyrrhic and Evil, alliance victories (Which beleive it or not, do exist) never get focus because blizzards way of structuring the game means that anything not related to the villain or current story never gets updated, just ignored, as well as being used to show how EVIL the horde is. This leads to a relationship were horde fans get accused of winning when our wins often dont feel like wins.
I think this weird dichotomy is exemplified best in Undercity, where neither side really feels like winners. Horde players feel like losers because we lost the city, and our defense of the city was easily beaten until we brought out the super weapons, which we were then shamed for using almost immediately. After the alliance got past the blight in an unsatisfactory way, syvanas then laughed at them and blew up the city. Undercity then went on to be completely ignored in the narrative, which makes the fact the alliance did chase the forsaken from tirisfal and destroy there capital feel meaningless.
To make matters worse, blizzard knew alliance players wouldn’t feel that Undercity was a proper win, as they proceeded to ruin the horde’s Hub just to make it a better place to raid. But they could have just, you know, made it a better written part of the narrative, where the alliance won by not being idiots and Genn or Jaina destroyed the city.
I feel that this just goes back to the Horde villain batting issue, the alliance isn’t allowed to get early wins because that would make the villain seem super weak, while the horde isn’t allowed to get wins that are fair because that is not evil enough for them.
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OR, instead of taking the attitude of “You can’t be upset that your living room is on fire because my whole house is on fire.”, maybe it’s okay for both groups to be upset if both groups are unhappy with the current situation.
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Not just new people; the faction war is putting us all more on edge than we would normally be.
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Possible, yes, but likely? The Horde has Sylvanas, and that’s pretty much it (since Saurfang has gone AWOL), the leaders I mentioned make up around 60% of the Alliance’s main leadership, it’s kinda hard to argue who’s more likely to win in this case.
Did you really just name a bunch of NPCs that sit in the Hall of Legends in Orgrimmar? Scraping this far from the bottom of the barrel just kinda proves my point.
So the WG and AB battlemasters? Once again, you’re really digging for it aren’t you?
The dudes’ in a wheel chair, his in-canon fighting days are over.
Yes it does, what other mortal on Azeroth has the same connection with nature that Malf does? Who has the same connection with Cenarius that Malf does? If Malf showed Cenarius how the Forsaken were BLATANTLY going out of their way to harm and defile nature, do you really think Cenarius would just be like “well what do the Tauren think?” I mean, this is the dude who attacked the Warsong for less, during the 3rd war, and they were just cutting down some trees, he’d get right to work on destroying these defilers. Heck, do you really think the Tauren are going to defy the will of Cenarius, a highly revered demigod in their culture, to defend the Forsaken, who are obviously destroying nature?
Well seeing as how it ended up still be blessed by at least 2 of the Dragon aspects including the one that Cenarius highly respected, I’m pretty sure it’s growth was somewhat warranted.
Wild gods that 1. Almost always demand tribute of some sort and 2. Also respect And defend nature, so they have pretty much no reason to help the Horde right now.
And muddled by the Horde themselves when Garrosh starting promoting Dark Shamanism, at this rate the Alliance has far more respect from and to the elements than the Horde does.
After multiple failed attempts.
So after being weakened by TWO supernatural forces and an unfamiliar foe that caught them by surprise during their weakness. Sounds like a whole lot of coincidence to me.
They’re also physically strong and it just so happens that 2/3 (unless you count Suramar and Thunder Totem, then it’s 3/5) of the Hordes remaining cities are semi-costal and can be invaded by sea.
Powerful enough to counter the Orcish dragon riders during the second war, so i’d Say their powerful enough.
Which they could be with a little bit of that’s Azerite stuff that just so happens to be everywhere now. What’s the Hordes equivalent?
He was a cripple that could hardly stand without a walking stick, I wouldn’t call that “jacked”.
Sylvanas got just as many Horde killed, if not more, than the Alliance.
Yeah exactly, so the Horde is on 2 crutches while the Alliances is on 1, so by default the Alliance still has the advantage.
The Kul Tiran navy doesn’t just give the Alliance the ability to fight the Horde at sea, it also gives them the ability to transport larger numbers of troops and supplies to Kalimdor. This is discussed in A Good War, and we also see it during the Siege of Orgrimmar. The Horde is extremely vulnerable to attacks by sea.
The Alliance isn’t.
It’s the reason both factions are looking for seafaring allies.
then why they didn’t attacked orgrimmar instead of undercity?
can you imagine? sylvanas setting the trap in undercity, but the alliance actually attacks orgrimmar.
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Proximity.
Prioritizing securing the Alliance heartland.
They also don’t have the ability to transport and supply a large enough force by sea quickly enough without the Kul Tiran fleet.
Edit: It would also be a good symbolic victory. The Undercity was personal to Sylvanas.
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Because Dues Vult.
No seriously. “Retake Lorderon” was part of a big advertising campaign for the typical alliance player (i.e. Human paladins).
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Nah, story is bad. Both alliance and horde. Bad.
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Most likely it’s because the idea was to hold undercity to force a surrender, occupying orgrimmar would be far harder as more of the horde lives there and Bildgewater Harbor and Thunderbluff are in far better conditions then Silvermoon and are more capable of sending aid.
Blizzard:
I can’t be accused of faction bias if I crap on both factions.
tapping_at_head.jpg
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Every time I see this forum mellow down with people finding common ground, a new crop of people show up, and instead of lurking and getting to know the community first, they go straight to reigniting all the worst things. BFA is definitely the new thing that’s drawing new people here to complain and attack “the other side” rather than discuss the state of the story. Of course some of the older members react to this toxicity whenever “their side” is attacked by the new bloods.
I always look forward to those times of general peace, where the discussions may be heated, but aren’t full of unnecessary vitriol and arguments in bad faith.
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I didn’t know that gold medaling in victimhood conferred such sweeping authority.
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Had me a hearty kek.
I was away for awhile but I see you don’t agree with me, so, we’ll try something else.
1 & 2 & 3: The Horde doesn’t have much of a visible cast because most of those characters were killed or retired. That doesn’t mean the Horde’s without leadership if Sylvanas just vanishes. You think Saurfang was a planned and long standing character? He was created just to yell your name across Orgrimmar and eventually grew onto be something more (partly due to his meme as a cleave monster). Most of the cast you named off didn’t exactly have much character development either and only now in WoW are they being propped up as prominent characters. It’s a fault of the writing team to not define them as characters.
4: A leader doesn’t fight in the field, or if he does it’s in the back of the field. In fact, that is the worst place for them to be. Getting captured or dying can cost setbacks in the war. His ability as farseer is still inherently useful.
5 & 6: Malfurion was not Cenarius’ one and only pupil. Cenarius has been with them since a long time ago. Heck, he even blessed Huln. If Cenarius ups and says ‘don’t attack, the world’s bleeding out and we need to handle this’, what’s Malfurion going to do? Unless the members of the Circle favor Malfurion more than Cenarius, Cenarius is the word of god.
7: They have an inherent purpose and nature, that doesn’t mean they have to do anything and not all wild gods are in strict allegiance with the Night Elves.
8: There’s nothing to really say for or against that, but that’d be ground shatteringly absurd if the Earthen Ring suddenly just lost all of their juice and the elements started favoring the Alliance, who up until a few years ago were complete strangers to their presence. I strongly disagree with that idea.
9: It still got sacked. Keep defenses require 10:1 odds to have a chance of winning and the attacker will always be running into a meat grinder, Lordaeron being probably the only time the writers have nodded at real life middle ages tactics.
10: They did get pre-emptively struck by the Forsaken, presumably because they were now a potential port to the Alliance in their territory, that part isn’t really clear. Regardless, that one battle is still important. The Gilneans have been on the backfoot perpetually because they’re refugees. The cannons, armories and all of that they’ve had on call, that’s all gone and they’re stuck basically rebuilding. What’s worse, that falls into enemy hands. They may be still useful infantry, but as a fighting military on their own, they’ve not got the tools for the job.
11: I wouldn’t call them Orc strong. Their technique in swordsmanship may either win or lose them the battle but if we’re talking physique, the Orcs have got the better gunshow going on. A navy in the olden ages isn’t as much of a boon as much people make it out to be. Olden ships are much easier to sink than what they are today and there’s still the matter of having to actually physically go aground and invade it on foot. All the navy truly does (if not sunk) is provide a staging ground for reinforcements to rally and keep going. A blockade does nothing to a populace that doesn’t import anything from the sea and takes directly from the land.
12: Not enough to call them all-powerful. It’d put the two on fighting grounds. Wyverns are arguably a different beast on their own right because of their venomous tail. Bats can navigate in the dark where gryphons cannot. Gryphon riders aren’t enough of an asset to call it an advantage, only a unit.
13: Essentially the same thing? They have Shredders that can be prepared for war and now tanks. In the most recent patch I came back on for, there’s an entire segment on them having a giant robot fight. Not counting that, there’s also iron stars and iron cannons, too, as much as I prefer to avoid thinking about Mag’har being from another timeline.
14: The point wasn’t to call him physically powerful, it was to draw a line to natural orc physique and point out that even a cripple like Gul’dan still had thick muscular arms.
15: Not true. That’s the boon of fighting a war from a Keep. 15,000 men can hold off 150,000 men and win. Even as a loss, spending that many men to sack Lordaeron was pyrrhic and the narrative supports this, because Stormwind’s Legions are down to conscripts. Pyrrhic victories are worse than defeats. If the Horde had lost, let’s say, 8,000, it would’ve costed the Alliance much, much more.
16: I don’t think SoO was as big of a setback as you think it is. Even Varian didn’t coup de grace the Horde leadership in SoO, because he knew that if he did, it would’ve unified the Horde that wasn’t present in SoO and would’ve brought ruin to the Alliance as much as it did to the Horde. A nd after the Broken Shore, I’m inclined to believe that it was not to the Alliance’s benefit.
All in all, from what I see on the Horde side, it’s enough to still fight a war against the Alliance and not get bowled over. To say the Alliance could just win without breaking a sweat is ridiculous. If they could have ended the Horde, they would’ve done it by now, they’ve been fighting long before the cataclysmic threats carried back on in full swing.
Who? Literally evey character I’ve listed has been an important part of Alliance histroy and were crucial to winning important battles, all the characters you listed(with the exception of Drek’thar) are just PvP NPCs.
And even then, though, he explicitly denounced the Forsaken in Cata and declared that he would NEVER help them. So you can bet he has zero intention on helping a Forsaken warchief of all people.
He blessed Huln because he was such a great ally and dedicated defender of the world. He proved himself to Cenarius and was rewarded a symbol as proof of his heroism. This does not mean the Horde get the same treatment by extension of the Highmountain tauren joining their ranks. And if Cenarius ups and does say ‘don’t attack, the worlds’ bleeding out’, the Tauren and the Horde have not only failed to make the effort to heal the world, but they’re actively trying to harm the world. So once again, the Horde stills fails at earning any sympathy from a guy who is literally called “the forest lord” and whos’ job it is to defend nature at all costs.
Didn’t say they did, all i said was that they, like night elf wild gods, are defenders of the natural world.
Yeah after already having endured a Gurubashi attack and a first attack from the Bleeding Hallow and Twilights hammer. Y’know, stones do erode after awhile of exposure to running water or gusts of wind.
Yeah it was, we lost commanders like Nazgrim and Zaela, as well as a good portion of the orc population.
Yeah, they would have, but we need a faction to play, so they obviously can’t do that, otherwise there wasnt much stopping the Alliance from annihilating the rest of the Horde leadership in the underhold. Thrall was depowered due to Dark shamanism, Baine and Vol’jin are exausted from the fighting, Sylvanas wasn’t nearly as powerful back then as she is now, gallywix is an easy picking, and Lor’themar would probably try joining the Alliance again.