Timers and affixes both existed. The affixes changed how you had to approach the dungeons week to week, in my experience.
I’m guessing between Legion and today the playerbase found that annoying.
They did but back then the biggest differences were the affixes were not as annoying as these newer ones and when m+ came out they slapped it on the old dungeon designs which made it both fun and pretty fast to get through keys even above keylvl 15 in legion.
It started going down hill right at the end of legion when the very first dungeon actually designed for m+ came out which was the seat of triumvirate or w/e it was called on argus and that’s when all the annoying mob density and drastic increase in time it takes to compete keys started.
Ok, so affixes are nothing new, and that dungeon specifically hit harder. Interesting. I just assumed they were something added in like SL or something since the highest key ever done was a +34 in S4 of BfA.
M+ participation matters about as much as Mythic raiding participation matters. Not at all.
All Blizz cares about is that raw subscriber count. If less folks are doing M+ and/or Mythic raiding, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I agree that at the end of the day, they are looking at subs, and likely also at popular participation. Wrath was 12.5 Million when it ended and people were jamming on raids. Then again, we had (what I felt) was better content and storytelling. Naxx, Ulduar, ICC… all hugely popular in their own right. Even the Argent Tournament was a blast and came with its own Dungeon and Raid combo. But does M+ have the staying power to keep subs up over solo and casual content? I’m not sure. Wrath also did not have M+, so it is hard to compare.
Do you get tired of making topics complaining about something based on nothing?
Guess the OP and I have the same concern. Keep the post coming.
“Go back to when it was popular” is a bit too simplistic. BFA and Shadowlands were the peak of M+, sure, but that was also the plague times when a lot of us spent a lot more time socializing online because there was very little to do outside. Finding PUGs and guildies with the patience to bash away at keys was a lot easier then, especially when the raid was on farm and the competitive PvErs wanted something else to do.
As someone who did a ton of keys back in SL, the way I see it, the problems with M+ currently are broader than the mode itself:
- It’s positioned as an expected progression path even for Delvers (thanks to Gilded Crests.) Thus you have people who lack the knowledge or in some cases even a desire to learn high-difficulty timed 5-man content, being shunted into a mode that might not suit them.
- For players who geared during Delves, lower keys feel unrewarding, but higher ones that give them what they want are completely unsuited for them as a jumping-on point.
- It requires multiple out-of-game addons and other resources to perform effectively which presents a barrier to entry for new players. Even beyond the typical asks of a boss mod and damage meter, now you need things like route pathing, dungeon knowledge (including dangerous trash), and kick coordination, especially if you want to try your hand at tanking - plus other things which seem optional but may not be for a given group like cooldown and external tracking.
- When people complain about the PUG scene, they’re told “go join a guild then!” But the tools for finding an active guild of like-minded friendly players in this game are absolutely abysmal. When you find a good one, it’s more precious than gold, but then real life happens and the guild dies off and you’re right back to square one.
These are the things Blizzard actually needs to look into solving, not merely tweaking the item level on some rewards or adjusting/removing a timer.
I don’t know why people complain about timer in m+ when pretty much every boss in raids have timers.
sure there is. M+ loot distribution needs to be nerfed or raid loot distribution needs to be buffed.
Also crests need adjusting.
Having only 1 viable way to farm them is getting old.
I feel like doing the full heroic raid+4/8M should at least be hitting the 90/week, probably more. Raids have been dropping not many of those since they were added.
It always had them. That’s why it was never salvageable to begin with.
I think it’s more accurate to say that the affix design was almost exclusively a tank/healer mechanic, while DPS got to faceroll their way through their 900th attempt at a titanforged piece.
So it’s not surprising that complaints increased as they introduced person responsibility affixes, or just things that they couldn’t offload as “healer responsibility” or “tank responsibility”
If we’re continuing with the cap of 90, a full raid clear should be minimum 270 (since you can only do it once per week). That way you actually have a chance of catching up if you fall behind the cap (while it’s there).
Raids had timers since vanilla. Games doomed I guess
Individual bosses had timers that stopped you from just turtling the entire time.
That’s very different from the entire instance having a timer so even your trash pulls need to be flawless.
Mob count is part of the dungeon. 1 dungeon is to one raid encounter.
Not exactly, since going by blizzard, the entire dungeon is 1 encounter.