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Assuming worst case scenario regarding Night Elf story
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Crazy thing is, they redeemed Kerrigan in SC2 but her story (and the story in general) ended immediately after. In WoW, they âredeemedâ Illidan in Legion and his story ended. I donât see them redeeming Sylvanas and then continuing her story.
Whether sheâs redeemed or not doesnât, in the end, matter, because sheâs going to be written out of the story by the end of the expansion in any case. I suspect a lot of the big players we see are going to be shelved or written out at the end of Shadowlands, though what comes after is anyoneâs guess, as this is the end of the narrative arc the writing team had planned, if a⊠much more squished and rushed version therein.
All she really needs for redemption is acknowledgement of her wrongdoings and attempts to atone.
Killing someone or torturing someone who has already repented is just wanting to get vengeance on someone who at that point likely wonât fight back.
As Uther would say justice demands retribution and considering the gravity of her crime she deserve to feel some of the pain she inflicted on others.
The only way Sylvanas deserves any kind of redemption is if she suffers consequences for her actions first.
Look at Illidan. We killed him and he had had his soul trapped in a crystal for years as a consequence for his actions. Then he arguably was redeemed, depends on who you ask, in Legion, but again he suffered consequences first.
Look at Arthas. We killed him and then he got thrown into the Maw, and with the way time works in the Shadowlands for all we know that means he has been tortured and tormented for 1000 years, so he suffered consequences for his actions. While Arthas isnât being redeemed as far as we know, you could argue he has paid his dues.
Sylvanas? Nada. To redeem her without having to pay the piper first is just rewarding her behavior and actions, which shouldnât be the case. Just my opinion.
Nope, donât like this argument at all. âAs long as we get to kill you first, you can come back and be redeemedâ. Itâs like saying one death (or healing coma in Illidanâs case) pays off thousands of deaths. Which is total bunk.
#TeamIrredeemable
The line between justice and vengeance is very small, blah blah blah. My morals are better than yours.
All Iâm saying, someone being getting redemption does not mean absolution. Sylvanas can be put on a path of redemption that doesnât involve her getting tortured to make someone else feel better because then itâs not about her getting redemption, itâs just about vengeance then.
Which if you want to separate the two, fine. People need to get revenge of Sylvanas to make them feel better.
But Sylvanasâ own redemption does not require her to be revenged on first.
Oh no, I agree 100%, I think Sylvanas is irredeemable. I just think if Blizzard wants to redeem her, which I think they do, she needs to pay for her actions first.
It could literally be something as simple as the Jailer uses some Jailer-y power and snaps his fingers and within the span of a second Sylvanas experiences all the pain and torment of the souls she sent to the Maw. Have her experience the thing she feared most and forced onto innocent souls. Then once she realizes the pain she has caused she can be redeemed.
This is how most souls are getting their shot to redemption, why should Sylvanas be exempt from it?
But if she doesnât face any consequences for her actions then her redemption is just a reward. That is wrong on many levels.
Like LOL we know you committed genocide and sent a bunch souls from Teldrassil and the 4th war to the Maw to suffer eternally or be obliterated to become tools for the Jailer, but thatâs okay, here some redemption for you. Genocide is okay as long as you do a good thing in the end.
/shrug Who knows.
From my understanding just doing evil doesnât mean rehabilitation in Revendreft. Vashj helped enslave a planet and she was sent to Maldraxxus for example. Being particularly prideful and refusing to acknowledge your crimes seem to be a criteria as well.
If say Sylvanas does acknowledge she had been a right prick and works to atone in the fight against the Jailer, would that mean she still has to to go through the now totally unnecessarily rehabilitation of the venthyr?
I donât know. Iâm not of the mind that she just needs to be punished to make me feel better.
Well iâm of the mind that at the very least she must be made to feel guilt. Enough guilt to the point of shattering her mind. Every life she has destroyed for her own selfish ends weighing down upon her, and from that a genuine desire to try and make things right, despite knowing that she most likely wonât be able to.
That is the only possible way I would accept a redemption story. Her feeling the full weight of her actions, accumelated over the years, all at once. And a fairly massive personality shift as a result.
You are giving the writers far too much credit. Or not enough. Canât really tell anymore.
Nah, why should she not have to suffer the same way all those souls did that she forced to be sent to the Maw? She had no issue sending them there, innocent people (children included), to be tormented foreverâŠ
Why should she get off scot free from that? She shouldnât. She should have to face the same torment she forced on others.
Because guilt can hurt far, far more than any pain. After feeling that guilt she would prefer to end up in the maw for all of eternity. That is the level of guilt she should feel.
LOL I think most people would take guilt over the sheer torment those souls endured in the Maw.
I give the writers no credit. They only know how to write disappointment.
Why would they justify anything she has done tho? The entire premise of the expansion is a result of her meddling for allegedly over 4 expansions in the background.
Iâm sorry, but betting on any kind of justification is just plain foolish pessimism.
Being redeemed in the end is one thing, but then telling me that sheâll being absolved of all crimes that led up to this point is actually pretty ridiculous. Like, I know the writing has been pretty tome dead for the last 3 expansions with its incredibly confused attempts to covey their respective messages, but like, thereâs not been a single villain in WC history that has ever been âjustifiedâ of their crimes before, so idk why you think Sylvanas will be somehow an exception to this rule.
Has a villain done something heroic in their final moments? Yes.
But have they been completely exonerated and absolved of their villainy? No.
Sheâs an antagonist now, idk why you think she could ever be considered a protagonist ever again. Like, am I missing something here? Did we not kill Garrosh during the events of WoD for his crimes committed during MoP?
Youâre being baselessly pessimistic on something thatâs so logically impractical(and pretty much impossible) at this point and youâre reminding me much of another poster whoâs also just so beyond bafflingly pessimistic to the point where they believe that only the worst case scenario can occur.
The problem with a Sylvanas redemption arc is that with the scope of what sheâs committed the time frame of an expansion is to short to do it properly. Just having Anduin flip a switch in her and her going âoh no what have I done!â fighting against the jailer and screaming the afterlife is free is not a redemption arc befitting the scope of what sheâs done.
A proper redemption arc for Sylvanas would take a lot of time, require a lot of her facing exactly what sheâs done and proving time and time again she can do the right thing.
And you know what? at the end of it she should still face proper punishment for what she did and accept it because simply doing good stuff will not erase everything evil and heinous sheâs done. Itâs not some cosmic dry erase board of âwell I killed 5 people but than I volunteered at the homeless shelter for a month so thatâs balanced out nowâ
Because Blizzard is very bad at writing redemptions.
Eh I wouldnât put this past the writers, either that or she will still be blamed for the crimes but get away completely unpunished. The only one that could potentially see justice done is Tyrande, and sheâs about to leave the maw and lose her Night Warrior powers.
Iâll believe it when I see it, the writers are doing their best to not bring anyone to justice for Teldrassil, and after they have given us complete BS for so many times (tyrande got her revenge, removing teldrassil references, Horde absolved of their crimes, Saurfang absolved of his crimes, Sylvanas redemption and Tyrande having to give up her NW powers without achieving justice) Iâm just not seeing how this can end in any way thatâs not a complete insult towards those races that were wronged by Sylvanas.
Well, if she gets her redemption now which the latest cinematic kind of made clear?..
Yea, but Garrosh wasnât considered attractive and female. He also didnât have a whole writing team loving him and he didnât get a redemption.
Baselessly? Iâve learned to only expect the worst after how Teldrassil has turned out, and how Tyrandeâs quest for justice is about to turn out.