There is literally nothing wrong with redeeming Sylvanas

[Pyrogar-proudmoore (Pyrogar)]

@Katheris-thaurissan

Eh I wouldn’t put this past the writers, either that or she will still be blamed for the crimes but get away completely unpunished.

She’s literally one of the MAIN VILLAINS of the expansion and one of the main facilitators of its entire premise, why would she get away unpunished?

The worst writers on planet earth could not manage such a miracle.

Like, they’d have to actually try to write something so bad.

Effort which the current team is incapable of putting forth.

@Katheris-thaurissan

The only one that could potentially see justice done is Tyrande, and she’s about to leave the maw and lose her Night Warrior powers.

And you know this…how?! Also, multiple characters are capable of delivering justice, our PCs included.

@Katheris-thaurissan

I’ll believe it when I see it, the writers are doing their best to not bring anyone to justice for Teldrassil, and after they have given us complete BS for so many times (tyrande got her revenge, removing teldrassil references, Horde absolved of their crimes, Saurfang absolved of his crimes, Sylvanas redemption and Tyrande having to give up her NW powers without achieving justice) I’m just not seeing how this can end in any way that’s not a complete insult towards those races that were wronged by Sylvanas.

You keep saying that, but not only is your argument based on assumption, but also just not founded in reality. Like, we have NEVER let a Villain in this franchise just “walk away unscathed”. Not Illidan, not Arthas, not Garrosh, not Deathwing, not Kael’thas, not Kil’jaeden, not Gul’dan, not even Sargeras. Why do you honestly believe that Sylvanas is going to be the FIRST and ONLY character to ever be an made an exception to this rule?

@Katheris-thaurissan

Well, if she gets her redemption now which the latest cinematic kind of made clear?..

She dies a Martyr, Elesa. We acknowledge that despite her immense misdoings, she did the right thing in the end, and then she remains a memory.

I don’t know why that’s hard for you to grasp.

Redemption=/=Exoneration

@Katheris-thaurissan

Yea, but Garrosh wasn’t considered attractive and female. He also didn’t have a whole writing team loving him and he didn’t get a redemption.

Clearly the whole writing team isn’t as enamored with Sylvanas as you think, or she wouldn’t have been made a major antagonist for two whole expansions.

@Katheris-thaurissan

Baselessly? I’ve learned to only expect the worst after how Teldrassil has turned out, and how Tyrande’s quest for justice is about to turn out.

Ok, there’s expecting the worst and then there’s doomsaying. What you do is declare that the literal absolute worst case scenario will occur(Sylvanas redemption/absolution, Tyrande dying and Nelves being forgotten, ect.) with absolute certainty despite having literally 0 evidence or indication within the story that events will unfold in such a way.

Listen, I know it’s difficult to trust the current writers, but what you suggest will happen is completely off-the-walls insane. Not only are they breaking a narrative tradition that’s been established since the franchise begun, but then are also assuming that a character who had very recently had suffered massive tragedy is going to be axed off in pursuing justice for said tragedy.

That’d be like if someones’ village was massacred and burned down and the last survivor was killed off because they wanted to get revenge on the perpetrator. Like, the victim is being punished even more because they yearn for justice on those who wrought said tragedy upon them. It’s completely insane and I don’t think even the worst writers on the planet could pull off something so stupid.

[Katheris-thaurissan]

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

She’s literally one of the MAIN VILLAINS of the expansion and one of the main facilitators of its entire premise, why would she get away unpunished?

The worst writers on planet earth could not manage such a miracle.

That’s a challenge accepted for the current WoW Writers.

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

Not Illidan, not Arthas, not Garrosh, not Deathwing, not Kael’thas, not Kil’jaeden, not Gul’dan, not even Sargeras. Why do you honestly believe that Sylvanas is going to be the FIRST and ONLY character to ever be an made an exception to this rule?

Because Sylvanas is the previous queen of the head writer, and they already went and called Sylvanas things such as “not evil” despite commiting a genocide so…

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

She dies a Martyr, Elesa. We acknowledge that despite her immense misdoings, she did the right thing in the end, and then she remains a memory.

Did you mean to reply to someone else?

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

Clearly the whole writing team isn’t as enamored with Sylvanas as you think, or she wouldn’t have been made a major antagonist for two whole expansions.

More like a villain sue for two expansions, and then she goes back to being a hero while facing zero punishments.

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

That’d be like if someones’ village was massacred and burned down and the last survivor was killed off because they wanted to get revenge on the perpetrator. Like, the victim is being punished even more because they yearn for justice on those who wrought said tragedy upon them. It’s completely insane and I don’t think even the worst writers on the planet could pull off something so stupid.

Yea, and you don’t expect the current writers to do this to a race they dislike this much? And even if Tyrande doesn’t die, if she forgives Sylvanas and loses her powers, what’s the point of having her still around? Those writers are capable of making Finel a quest mob for Horde players to kill whenever there’s another faction war expansion.

We can just agree to disagree, you’ll see eventually that they are more than capable of doing this.

[Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord (Dreadmoore)]

@Katheris-thaurissan

The fact that Blizzard is trying to sweep everything Sylvanas did under the rug

@Katheris-thaurissan

The fact that they tried to remove every reference to Teldrassil from beta

@Katheris-thaurissan

and that the only outcome for Tyrande is to forgive Sylvanas and lose her powers, or to die.

To quote Talkaar,

@Talkaar-wyrmrest-accord

Oh my god, we WISH

[Valko-muradin (Valko)]

imagine getting into lengthy arguments about sylvanas and teldrassil in year of our lord 2021

i hope sylvanas gets redeemed so all the annoying people shut up

[Morghel-daggerspine]

@Valko-muradin

i hope sylvanas gets redeemed so all the annoying people shut up

That, I can assure you, will have the opposite effect.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

@Valko-muradin

i hope sylvanas gets redeemed so all the annoying people shut up

I just want us all to burn together. Sylvy gets redeemed, the rebellion was objectively wrong, Baine has been playing us all along, he and Anduin have secretly been working for the even more secretive, even more mastermindery ultra-evil Giga-Satan, who needed Teldrassil for his Machiavellian plans. And we now all have to rally around Nomi’s banner to burn as much food as possible for AZEROTH!!!

[Valko-muradin (Valko)]

well the alternative is that they go completely nutso and that’s funny too.

[Morghel-daggerspine]

@Valko-muradin

well the alternative is that they go completely nutso and that’s funny too.

I’d say that the alternative is the state the forums were in during 2018. Except a hundred times worse, and possibly lasting forever. Whether you like that or not is up to you, but I would prefer for it not to happen.

[Valaraad-draka]

Sylvanas needs to die and Tyrande needs to be the one who ends her.

I’m not opposed to her finally accepting that what she has done is wrong and is repentant over it before meeting her end, but she still needs to die at the hands of a Night Elf.

The NE player base desperately needs a definitive ‘win’ after the atrocity that was BfA and the best way to do that and give them proper closure is in letting them get the killing blow and finally getting real justice for what happened to them.

[Farus-feathermoon]

@Katheris-thaurissan

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

There’s NO WAY she’s returning to the Horde after this, let’s just make that clear. At MOST Nathanos will get cleared to join the Horde again and take her place, but Sylvanas is done. Her story has been expended and there’s nothing else to tell with her after this.

Again, she’s likely to sacrifice herself for redemption and become exonerated in her final moments. It’s totally looking to be a “sub-villain betraying the main villain at the last second” kinda deal. Anduin or something will eventually click in her brain that what she is doing is wrong and then she will sacrifice herself to sabotage the Jailer in some major capacity ultimately allowing us to claim victory against him.

Eh I’m not sure about this honestly. The writers always want to have their cake and eat it, so if they are going to redeem and justify Sylvanas’ actions, they’ll most likely also have her live through even more expansions and be in the spotlight for even longer.

I dunno, they basically wrote Illidan out of the story until they need him again, and he’s more iconic/marketable than Sylvanas is. Granted, there are differences, but given that Illidan’s character arc is resolved more or less, who’s to say they won’t do the same for Sylvanas?

[Ardmccloud-frostmourne]

Except for the mob of Night Elf fanatics hounding for her blood.

[Kirielel-cenarius]

@Pyrogar-proudmoore

At MOST Nathanos will get cleared to join the Horde again and take her place

Kind of hard since he is most likely in the Maw now.

[Gantrithor-myzrael]

@Katheris-thaurissan

they already went and called Sylvanas things such as “not evil” despite commiting a genocide so…

Elesana alt confirmed.

[Zahirwrite-farstriders]

@Kirielel-cenarius

Kind of hard since he is most likely in the Maw now.

i ask me, will we see him again? i mean, if sylvanas didn´t care about him, and think everything is fates desiccion, even who we love, she would feeling nothing toward nathanos,because its not her “free will”

[Kirielel-cenarius]

I am pretty sure it was a one sided love, she never seemed to see him as anything more than her most useful tool.

[Dardillien-wyrmrest-accord (Dardillien)]

@Kirielel-cenarius

she never seemed to see him as anything more than her most useful tool.

Dark Mirror heavily implies otherwise, but maybe that is just me.

[Murdra-wildhammer (Murdra)]

@Luminarium-bleeding-hollow

A lot of people want Arthas to be redeemed because the Helm of Domination is what made him do bad things

Didn’t Arthas do bad things even before the helm of domination even entered the picture?

[Aurirel-wyrmrest-accord]

Part of it being a seemingly somewhat widespread belief that just because there was no real viable cure during the culling, he did nothing wrong. I think people need to actually imagine themselves having to agree to personally smash the faces of innocent people in even if its “for the greater good”. He did not respect objections to a literal “kill everyone in the city” order at all, even from his mentor. He just right went into it with more limited knowledge than we the players have with barely any sense of “Oh god, I really have to do this, I’m so sorry…”

[Kirielel-cenarius]

I think the closest that could be considered bad was betraying mercenaries. Some would say Culling Stratholme, but the population was infected already.

[Dardillien-wyrmrest-accord (Dardillien)]

I’d say betraying the mercenaries and the Culling of Stratholme definitely are on Arthas, as he wasn’t corrupted or anything at all when both happened. And I believe both would earn him a place in Revendreth if he was judged by the Arbiter correctly.

If all his actions once he picked up Frostmourne, and then the Helm of Domination, then I think he DEFINITELY ends up in Revendreth with a lot more to repent for.

No matter how you slice it Arthas deserved to go to Revendreth, it’s just whether it’s for just his actions pre-corruption or all his actions before being Lich King and after being the Lich King.