No. It wasn’t aggresion towards the Horde. Jaina’s actions were to help stop the Horde’s aggresive movements, as they were unjust and came out of nowhere. And when Garrosh assaulted Theramore, even the Kirin Tor, a faction that had been very strictly neutral, came to Theramore’s defense. That’s how Rhonin died.
It’s not a breach of neutrality if all you are doing is defending the assaulted and you are just trying to stop the fighting between your two allies.
1)Varian started a war, that he also helped end by the pre-Shattering book. Both sides were too tired to fight and had an armistice.
2) Said trolls and taurens were also helping Garrosh attack Theramore. And creating a second front in the war, meant the Horde had to divert troops from attacking Theramore.
Not true. You can read the book before Cata and confirm in there. Blizzard has stated it. And in game NPC’ have all confirmed it was Garrosh. What started at Undercity was a response to a perceived Horde attack, and was resolved before actual hostilities. The war in Cata and MoP was started by Garrosh.
First, trolls, tarren and orcs were part of the attacks.
Second, the purpose of the activity in the Barrens was to establish a path for support to Ashenvale from Theramore. Which as to help defend against the Horde push into Ashenvale.
In short, not aggression.
he didn’t help to end pre-shattering, the war didn’t end, it was just a cease fire, the war continued, the alliance even captured thrall
theramore attack first, the troll village was not attacking theramore, neither the taurens
it is true, he start in the face of thrall at the end of undercity battle
the shattering only mention a cease fire, who is not in any place a peace or a end war.
Nop, only orcs and the warsong clan attack the night elves, the taurens in the barranes had nothing to do with it, neither the trolls
BS since the dwarves invaded to do their excavations
“lets attack those races, take their territory, and say we are neutral”
Saying tis not aggression is asinine
Yet, everything you guys are saying just confirm that theramore was not neutral and help to attack the horde
I can’t wait for the threads a few years down the line saying that the Burning was justified too.
Actually we’ve already had a few of those…
The reason I support Garrosh did nothing wrong is due to horrible writing, and the fact being lied to. We were promised Garrosh would be an awesome Warchief. Evidence of this would be Stonetalon. It was reported as a mistake but I honestly don’t believe that especially when the promise of Garrosh being awesome came before that. Which is tragic because Stonetalon was probably the best characterization of any character in WoW.
Having said that it is moments when both Alliance NPCs and players believe “Daelin did nothing wrong, he was proven right” only add oil to the fire. Daelin who deforested Durotar screwing over the Horde. Daelin who took over Theramore and ignored his daughter. Daelin who wanted to genocide the Orcs. “The Orcs are monsters! See the Orc attacked me when it was trying to find peace, and after I attacked it!” Yeah any sane being would defend itself with either fight or flight. The Orcs tried flight and being peaceful, looked how that turned out. So the only option was to fight.
The Horde left Eastern Kingdoms, went to Kalimdor, and aided in the fight to stop the Burning Legion. Then settled on the harshest land to atone for their past atrocities, orcs can live in harsh environments, and stay away from others to find peace.
Then Daelin comes and burns that to the ground. His daughter even tried convincing him to stand down, and explain the Orcs are attempting to find peace. Not only does he ignore her, he takes over Theramore. He has no excuse and justice was ironically served.
Also ironically whenever the Alliance goes “Daelin was right!”, “All Orcs are monsters and bad!”, “Genocide the Forsaken!” Only further gives people like Garrosh and Sylvanas far more power than they should have. H&ll Sylvanas even convinced Saurfang to go to war using this logic of reasoning. Henceforth more and more Horde players will support Garrosh, and Sylvanas. Other wise the Horde being removed may be a possibility.
It also doesn’t help that Activision Blizzard writes the Horde as stupidly evil, and the Alliance as Holier than Thou. Both being opposite of their original WoW classic design. Yes the Alliance were actually not the super duper nice faction in classic to WotLK. They were actually aggressive, pious, and prideful, thinking the Horde as nothing but a band of lesser beasts.
It also doesn’t help that Legion was heavily HEAVILY Alliance focused. That makes a lot of Horde players nervous that the Horde may get removed as a faction and be swallowed up by the boring Lawful Good Alliance blob. Just like what happened to the Night Elves. and no! Highmountain and Suramar in Legion are not Horde content! I know Alliance players will state other wise but that is factually not true! I even wish Highmointain had that Baine scene in it to even up Val’sarah and give us some content, but it was removed, so it is not Horde content! Both areas were not Horde content at the time therefore it is factually not Horde content!
First, calling what we had before the “Wrathgate” peace, is a farce, both sides were STILL a war but according to Chronicles 3, it was more of a cold one/and generally they “semi-coordinate” their attack until the whole "wrathgate thing.
If you are gonna blame Varian for starting that war, then why not blame the source of it, Sylvanas and her little plague? You know the one that rained down on all of the Alliance and Horde that day? Ultimately, the Alliance saw plenty of causa belli once they decided to attack Undercity that day(the whole using Alliance soldiers for experience for example)
Lastly, a “cessation of all hostiles” is peace. If nothing else both sides were not actively killing each other!
The trolls and Taurens were attacking Theramore’s allies! What don’t you get about the concept of Theramore being part of the Alliance?
it seems like saurfang and baine have already been assimilated into the alliance. i wouldn’t be surprised if bfa ends with the horde being disbanded and everyone joins the alliance under king anduin, after all i believe there was a prophecy of anduin uniting all of azeroth against the shadow.
Assuming Blizzard was planning on ending the two faction system(doubt it) I do expect the Horde to formally be disbanded and the Alliance evolving into whatever the new world government is suppose to be. If nothing else that would be the “final victory” the Alliance should win in the faction war.
with this you just proved that Garrosh didn’t start the war, since you proved here that we were still in war
he cannot start something who is going on already
im not blaming no one, im just stating a fact, to me he was totally justified, i don’t rly care, but he did, we don’t need to whitewash and put the blame on Garrosh
this not peace
Again, they were not
this is just another confirmation that theramore was not neutral
they were part of the alliance, and attacked the horde multiple times, claim they were neutral is fake propaganda, they were a valid militar target.
Again, not saying they are right or wrong, just saying the facts.
He started the most recent round of hostilities and destroy/had no intention of every trying for peace. Better?
Garrosh was over aggressive jerk who want to start a war in the middle of a Cataclysm and dragged a neutral nation(Gilneas) into his war.
As far as warcraft is concerned, that is as close to “peace” as we get.
No one ever said(at least anyone who knew the lore) that Theramore was neutral. What it was however is a nation that was not interested in war until the Horde decided to attack its allies! At best, Theramore had a non-aggression pact with THRALL! Which meant the moment Thrall left, any deal they had was over!
And thats totally irrelevant
Like Varian or the night elves had any intention of it
He was the jerk who want to win the war the alliance started
the close thing we get to peace was the MOP aftermatch
it is said many many times
they attack before thrall leave, he just did blind eye
That is what worries me the most. I am team Honor Horde, however I can’t shake the feeling that the Honorable Horde has already been assimilated into the Alliance. Despite my personal hatred to an extreme of Sylvanas, that is a very big and legitimate reason to support her. In fact I believe that is the biggest reason why people support Sylvanas. Not to fight the Alliance or kill off hope, but to not be absorbed by the Alliance and lose what it means to be Horde. That is probably the biggest fear Horde players have. Playing through Legion was fun, but I felt like I meant nothing. Especially on Argus when Alleria was insulting the Horde in front of my face, AS I HELPED HER!
Another scary possibility would be a WoD expansion where we are killing off Horde races as the basis of it, and it is considered a “Horde Expansion.” Because Horde players just love killing Horde races. Just ask any Troll player how fun it was to kill Zul’jin, or play in any other troll killing dungeon back in the day. Because I can already tell you back in classic and BC, troll players were not happy about troll dungeons. Troll players were especially devastated when Zul’jin was announced as a loot pinata.
i don’t really think it will matter if people chose team honor or team morally grey, if blizzard intends to assimilate the horde into the alliance, there is not much we can do. i for one dont want horde in my alliance, because i simply can’t see several of the races getting along, like the worgen and forsaken, and it will all feel very forced
Justification is an irrelevant issue. Sylvannas needed to come away from the War of Thorns with a decivisive victory over the Alliance. The Burning of Teldrassil was her only option.
The battle for Barrens happens just a day before Deathwing explodes from the ground. Thrall was long gone.
Considering we all go to war in WoD that is telling of how “peace” in WoW is a very fluid term.
Except the Alliance at that point were not interested in war! And he was more interested in making a name for himself! Hell, he wanted to rename Ashenvale to himself if captured. Now the only thing that will be named after him a pitiful strip of land on Northrend. Fitting.
The night elves were TRADING with the orcs until the whole Twilight Hammer fiasco. And yes, as show by Varian not going on the offensive immediately after that incident was reported to him, Varian was interest in peace. Or at least no losing more Alliance lives
Killing night elves is always the only option, it seems.
The Horde was in need of resources. The Night Elves used an excuse to end vital trade.
The Horde not willing to just sit an die decided to take what it needed. Theramore by getting involved put itself in the crosshairs. The results are on Jaina’s head.
Generally because the Night Elves themselves always eliminate all other options.
this don’t mean they were not attacking before, just that this battle happened after
we didn’t go to war in wod, it was a skirmish
sure, when it was thrall, the good guy, lets go to war and screw up the horde
with Garrosh? wait now, we want peace of course
and its a lie btw, the alliance was interested in war, the sole reason Garrosh invaded ashenvale was because of it
No, they stopped after wrathgate, the twilight hammer fiasco was a tentative to rebuild the trade.
this just not true, Varin only softened in MOP, not in cata
mind i remind you how the alliance captured thrall and want to display him in stormwind like an animal?