IIRC the only part she disagreed with was the timing. The book described the Horde cheers after the destruction of Theramore as deafening. That lead me to believe that the Horde as a whole wasn’t so tore up about the bombing.
2 Likes
Before the events of Cataclysm, the Horde had begun marching into Ashenvale forest en mass. They had staged a massive assault, looking to claim the forest from the Night Elves’ control. Jaina had to respond to Garrosh’s breach of peace and assault on Ashenvale. What sort of ally would she be if she just stood aside and let Garrosh invade the Night Elves?
12 Likes
Pretty much this. Being part of the Alliance isn’t a free ride. You support the Alliance in times of conflict. I know it seems like humans are at the forefront of everything, but the whole Alliance contributes to conflicts as they arise. Theramore couldn’t be an exception without a very good reason, really. A reason such as having just been the forefront for a major campaign and needing time to recover.
5 Likes
Garrosh was right.
2 Likes
She was surrounded by death, engulfed by it, overwhelmed by it. Death was in the line of listing buildings, not a single one of them intact. Death was in the feel of the earth beneath her feet, in the cacophonous and erratic sky above her. And most of all, death was in the bodies that lay where they had fallen.
Healers sprawled, the injured still in their arms. Riders and horses remained units in death, as in life. Soldiers had fallen with their weapons still sheathed, so sudden and inevitable had been the attack…
Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War, pg. 253
This wasn’t war. This wasn’t even murder. This was obliteration, done at a comfortable distance. Killing in the most brutal and cowardly fashion Jaina could conceive of…
Jaina Proudmoore: Tides of War, pg. 256
I think the book should be given more credit. Obviously these are cherrypicked passages, but they shed some detail.
9 Likes
Well, Garrosh did capture the refugees (and Horde civilians) and start killing and torturing them. Then where was the whole “make opponents disappear”.
1 Like
I really enjoyed that book. And I definitely disagree with the bombing, probably moreso because of that book. It doesn’t matter if Theramore was sheltering military assets or whatever. Once you decide innocent civilians are an acceptable form of collateral damage without any fair warning or chance to evacuate, you’ve lost yourself and can justify anything.
2 Likes
Which is a flat out admission that Theramore wasn’t a neutral party but a military partner in aggression against the Horde.
4 Likes
->Eitrigg in cata:
->Eitrigg in bfa:
ZUG ZUG LETS GO TO FULL WAR, FOR SYLVANUS
Thas just character assassination.
11 Likes
I was more talking about the beginnings of the war rather during the event after the bombing. Thank you for helping notice that mistake.
Do you know why? Because the Horde first raided Teldrassil and tortured a whole camp of NEs, skinned them, dismembered them and desecrated their bodies after their deaths too.
The NEs stop all trade with the Horde because they refused to bring all those who were responsible to justice (they were all Cultists).
Then Garrosh uses this as an excuse to invade ashenvale and the rest of other Alliance territories.
She did what she had to to protect her people. The Horde was already at war with the Alliance and she was part of the Alliance.
What did you expect? Open her gates to Garrosh?
Garrosh started the war and Thrall’s inaction gave him the excuse.
Oh poor misunderstood Garrosh. /s
Well when you operate in a different plane of reality that tends to happen.
8 Likes
source? are you rly stretching an event who was made by the twilight hammer, trying to make look worse going for the emotional appeal???
they already stop the trade because of Wrathgate.
Varian started the war
6 Likes
That was the event sited as making the relations worse after wrath gate.
Its in that idiotic book for the cataclysm expansion.
I only gave the description the book gave. Nothing more.
My mistake then but the Alliance did ask for Thrall to take action but he did not meet their demands.
You mean attacking Undercity when the Forsaken attacked?
The Twilight’s Hammer did that while impersonating the Horde. That was made extremely clear and explicitly stated in The Shattering, the same book that introduced it.
11 Likes
I know. But Horde still did not go after them.
The Shattering book made it crystal clear Thrall did not meet Alliance’s demands for justice.
Thrall did not denounce the actions of those responsible. Even thrall at the time did not know this was the action of cultists. But we can go on for a long time what an absolute POS Thrall is.
3 Likes
first, the horde didn’t raid teldrasil like you claimed
second, the twilight hammer who attack the camp and they attack both druids, horde and alliance alike
i read the book and i don’t remember this description, besides, tis a totally irrelevant thing and you bring up trying to appeal to the emotional.
they didn’t, they just stop and kill horde caravans, why the orcs and the horde should be punished by something they didn’t? wrathgate its nor their fault, they suffer the same as the alliance, hint, the night elves didn’t have loss there, and have no reasons to get pissed of by the horde.
They just used as excuse to stop the trade, since they never wanted
Varian clearly declared full war at the gates of undercity, its a fact.
this is asinine from part of the alliance, how the horde would do that? lmao, it was impossible, they were not horde members to be put in justice
6 Likes
Doesn’t matter who was actually responsible.
Thrall made sure the Cultists got the maximum effect out of this plot.
He didn’t reconcile with the Alliance despite all evidence (faked) indicated the Horde was responsible.
I beg to differ but if it irks you try to ignore it.
I could not give two literal craps what you think about it.
First off who trades with whom is up to them.
Secondly the Horde was responsible. The Forsaken are Horde, narratively speaking they accepted them into the Horde and are responsible for anything they pull.
Because at the time it was framed as the Horde that did it.
The characters in the story don’t have our hindsight. All they knew is some orcs did a bad thing and their leader Thrall doesn’t care.
Everytime I speak with a Horde poster I have to seemingly explain that the sky is blue and water is wet. I am getting tired of stating the obvious.
3 Likes
it does matter, cause you are blaming the horde for a thing they didn’t
what?
he was not warchief at that time anymore
easy, did i hit a never because i exposed your tactic?
never said otherwise.
nope, its a rogue faction who did that, its not the horde who order it
by this logic i can say Arthas and azshara are alliance fault, because elves and night elves are alliance, poor, por logic.
Again, thrall wasn’t warchief anymore
its impossible for then do something when they had nothing to do with it, the alliance demands are just empty
you are heavy biased, who strait up lie, and get called out, you are in no position to explain the sky is blue and water is wet don’t try to act like in pigeon chess pls
9 Likes
I feel like using the phrase “aggression against the Horde” is a stretch at best. The Horde started the war. Helping to defend your ally is not “aggression.”
4 Likes
- the horde didn’t start the war, it was Varian
- they were not just helping to defend an ally, they were attacking the trolls, taurens and orcs too.
10 Likes