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h ttps://yande.re/post/show/78533
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The biggest problem Saurok face as a playable race is that lore wise tehre are no female, but at the same time that can be remedied if there are a sub-sect of sauroks that were taken in by a Wild God or a Loa and it changes them. Besides that, theyāll fit well in the Horde.
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The thing about there being no females is thatā¦there kinda is. Saurok eggs are in game, and seeing as they come from lizards the Mogu decided to use their Flesh-shaping magic on, it stands to reason that female Saurok exist somewhereā¦not shown in-game, of course, but I donāt see Saurok being capable of asexual reproduction.
Besides, many of the current playable races were once NPC races without female models anywhere. For example, Worgen had no female models and Dark Iron Dwarves were all male. Even allied race candidates like the Gilblins were all male until we saw female Gilblins in BfA. I see no reason why female Saurok canāt suddenly become a thing as well.
Chances are, like with most races that become playable, female Saurok would just appear without question. I donāt really see much explanation about where female Saurok would suddenly come from, nor do I really think it is needed.
Just my opinion, of course. 
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Several races that players would like to see as playable, do not have the female version (yet).
And this is something that is simple to correct.
Worgen did not have a female version until the cataclysm.
The models designed for trolls and tauren were not very ā¦ feminine.
h ttps://en.wikifur.com/w/images/c/c3/TaurenAlpha.png
h ttps://i.imgur.com/YrNCe54.jpg
In the end, it is nothing more difficult to do than a lore.
If today we have human druids and purple blood elves, then we can also have female models for other races like sauroks and sethraks.
And not necessarily with the pattern of dimorphism of other races.
But if someone wants to add breasts to a reptilian race, I will not be against it.
ESO Argonians, look very good to me. And I like breasts.
Who doesnāt?
But if that is the only excuse that can be justified for not having sauroks or other races, then taunkas, yaungols and ogres will never be a playable race either, as I have never seen a female version of them in the game.
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The thing about there being no females is thatā¦there kinda is. Saurok eggs are in game, and seeing as they come from lizards the Mogu decided to use their Flesh-shaping magic on, it stands to reason that female Saurok exist somewhereā¦not shown in-game, of course, but I donāt see Saurok being capable of asexual reproduction.
As of right now itās been implied that the eggs were made the same way the mogu made it but learned by the Sauroks and they never really said what was used besides the local fauna so it can be what was originally a beast given intelligence or a conglomeration of multiple species together.
Several races that players would like to see as playable, do not have the female version (yet).
And this is something that is simple to correct.
Worgen did not have a female version until the cataclysm.
The unique thing about the sauroks problem is lorewise they are basically confirmed male only and created only instead of born as we learned through scenarios and quests. But I hope they do retcon that eventually.
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Not exactly.
Letās remember that reptiles do not have such an obvious dimorphism.
And that the mogu used either male or female, or they would not have multiplied over the centuries, after the sauroks fled to the swamps and forests of Pandaria.
Sauroks are neither immortal nor are they growing out of the ground.
They are reproducing.
And even if the mogu had used only males or only females, just remember Jurassic Park.
Life always finds a way!
It is implied that there are female sauroks.
They just were never shown.
In this they are equal to ogres, yaungol and walrus.
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I remembered something else, that the younger ones (ahahaha) may not have seen, but I find it interesting to quote out of curiosity.
If you can, google for lizard women of Mongo, from the old Flash Gordon cartoon from 1979.
We see several of them but no male.
It does not mean that they do not exist.
Only that they are not used in history.
We also see Prince Thun, a lionman. That is, there are lionwomen.
I would post some images but in addition to the fact that I lost the privilege of posting links, some sensitive people may be scandalized.
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The closest thing I can find about the eggs is the āDagger in the Darkā scenario:
Seems like the text referred to the revelation that the Saurok were created by the Mogu with Garrosh. Were there other things, such as quests and such, that would go into more detail about the Saurok using flesh-shaping magic themselves to create more of them in egg form?
Seems a bit odd for them to use local animals of any type to turn them into Saurok in eggs if it is true. I also find it hard to believe you could, say, turn a tiger into a Saurok. I know itās Flesh-shaping magic, but I feel like it would have limitations of some sort. Especially for Saurok who just stumbled upon it and managed to perfectly wield the magic to create more of their own, even if this was just one particular tribe. Not to mention how they create the eggs around the new Saurok would need explaining.
Also with the amount of Saurok that are in the world, I find it a bit hard to imagine that the Mogu would be picky on the gender of the lizards they picked up. Sure, they could favor men in the context of a slave army, maybe even using female Saurok for other tasks, but I canāt see the flesh-shaping magic changing the biological sex of the lizards they use.
Anyway, if you could point me to info, like quests and such, I would appreciate it! It would make some interesting research, for sure. Even if it is true, itās just one tribe using the flesh-shaping magic, and it wouldnāt stop female Saurok from ever being a thing in the game. 
I will say that angry Saurok are a fearsome sightā¦but the Alliance would tremble before the nightmare that is an angry Saurok in heat. 
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Thereās female saurok what are you going on about? Just check the hearthstone artwork. While not canon I think itās safe to assume they have females. No where in game is it said all currently existing sauroks were all created by the mogu and there arenāt females. Thatād be wild speculation turned head canon. Everything points to the opposite.
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Hearthstone is a unique case, itās both canon and not canon at the same time. But thatās what blizzard wants to bring into the Warcraft universe or not. I treat it as itās own universe due to things that conflict with the main universe such as Virmen are depicted much more humanoid than they are in the game with Mean Streets. And the Unāgoro crater in universe doesnāt have any tortollen or saurok there while hearthstone universe does.
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Yeah, Hearthstone is its own thing pretty much, even if some things that originate from there inspire WoW, such as Tortollans who originated from Hearthstone from my understanding. Also, aside from a microholiday that may not be canon, Saurok arenāt currently residing in Unāgoro Crater at all.
Iām still interested if you could point me towards where it states in game that mentions all Saurok being male or them using flesh-shaping itself. I promise itās more to do with interest in Saurok research as opposed to being argumentative. In order to give better reasoning for playable Saurok, I have to consider what is presented in the game and analyze it.
Still, assuming it is true, it would seem like it was just one tribe doing it. Most tribes arenāt really that capable of wielding such magic and also have decent numbers within their tribe, and if they had no ways of reproducing, they wouldāve eventually died out and not be a problem at some point. Itās why I feel like there would be female Saurok somewhere, even if theyāre not shown in-game. I really have a hard time seeing them unable to reproduce, having come from lizards, or reproducing asexually.
Anyway, as I said, if you could refer me of what to look up, Iāll be happy to do so and analyze it.
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Late reply not sure if it was indeed the right info as it was years later since i last went to pandaria, things i remember might of came from either the scrolls across pandaria or the out of game book Warcraft Chronicles.
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Sounds like I need to look into the Warcraft Chronicle books then to see what they say. Of course, Blizzard can always retcon things and retcon their retcons, so Iām not sure how much weight those books may hold in general.
Iāll keep an eye out for any of this info as I do Saurok research, though Iām still of the opinion that female Saurok can be/are a thing and are needed for Saurok to reproduce. I also donāt really like the idea that Saurok use to be animals of any kind that got flesh-shaped into Saurok by whoever, as the whole point of Saurok was that they were specifically lizards that got painfully turned into Saurok and were forced into slavery before fighting to become free. Kinda makes them lose character if they all use to be things like goldfish or roaches, nor does it really make much sense to me.
Saurok should be 100% lizardmen, and thatās something that, in my opinion, makes them awesome.
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There has been something that Iāve wanted to talk about regarding new races joining the Horde in general. While it doesnāt seem like a big thing in the grand scheme of things, and as far as I am aware is not really shown in the Alliance, I still wanted to analyze it and discuss it since it could become important.
I wanted to talk about Baineās comments in the Vulpera unlock scenario.
Before I begin, with it being several months since the Vulpera unlock scenario has been out, I feel more comfortable talking about it in the open. Regardless, I want to give a heads up that there are spoilers here if you want to see the Vulpera unlock scenario.
Iāll also say that what I type isnāt perfect, and can always be debatable. I mainly wanted to type my own feelings, but I would like to hear what others have to say on the matter as well. I also will try to go into as much detail as possible, but there are things I likely will forget to mention.
With that said, letās begin with the analysis.
In the beginning of the Vulpera unlock scenario, we see the following conversation occur:
Kiro: High Chieftain Bloodhoof. I am Kiro, and I speak for the vulpera of Volādun. We seek to join the Horde.
Kiro: Long have we survived amidst the sands, without a thought of what lies beyond them. But the Horde has shown us that there is more to life than mere survival.
Kiro: If youāll have us, we would explore the world by your side.
Baine Bloodhoof: Though I am honored by your request to join us, I am afraid that I must decline.
Baine Bloodhoof: Meeting the needs of our current allies has stretched the Horde thin. It would be unwise for us to take your people under our wing.
Baine Bloodhoof: But please, enjoy the hospitality of Orgrimmar as our guests. Horde or not, the vulpera will always be welcome here.
Kiro: I understand. Thank you for your time, High Chieftain.
Of note is this specific part:
Baine Bloodhoof: Meeting the needs of our current allies has stretched the Horde thin. It would be unwise for us to take your people under our wing.
Now for context, this was after a big war was fought with the Alliance, a battle with Azshara occurred, and then Nāzoth was attempting to take over the world (of Warcraft!) It could be understandable that, at the time, the Horde was stretched thin and a lot of the races within the Horde needed help with something, along with different heroes exhausted from all the events going on.
The whole point of the scenario was to show that the Vulpera had a place within the Horde, where they were able to help out with the little things going on in the Horde territories, and it was a needed thing at the time period.
The question does remain if Baineās comments have any influence over the possibility of the Horde gaining new members?
My opinion is that no, it wouldnāt. Most people would likely flock to the answer that this was just meant as flavor text, being something to fit the narrative of this specific instance with it likely never coming up again. Not to mention that Blizzard will continue to add new races as they see fit, and this likely wonāt get commented at all in the future.
So letās talk about why I view Baineās comments as being flawed and how being spread thin could be avoided. I will say that what I type is not perfect and could be debatable, but these are my opinions.
Weāll start with the benefits of new allies joining.
First, new allies would mean more within the ranks. Itās more units to fight against the Alliance or to allocate in protecting new territory.
Second, new allies would mean more economical opportunities (which Goblins would be all over this). A new market would open where the new race that joins resides and the wealth of said races would be able to contribute to the Hordeās economy.
Third would mean potentially new resources and land. Where the new race resides would become Horde lands, and said new races could help protect those lands with other members of the Horde who come to visit, set up shop, or are stationed as defenders to enforce the area.
Fourth would be innovations of those races being utilized by the Horde in general. Weapons made by the orcs, magical artifacts made by the Blood Elves, inventions made by the Goblins (which can help or hinder), etc. Staying as the Horde use to be would just lead to stagnation, which wouldnāt be helpful in the long run.
These are just a few examples of the benefits of new Horde members. Of course, there can always be cons, such as political stuff, the amount of resources that get used up, refugees if territory gets overthrown, and so on. Still, I donāt see races joining the Horde to be freeloaders at all, but instead as a natural progression of a form of civilization.
Letās take Gilblins and The Unshackled for example. They donāt really have a home, have a number of displaced people that are worried about becoming slaves again. Would the Horde just abandon them if they asked to join the Horde? Not a good idea, since they can offer aquatic units that would be very helpful in naval combat or underwater exploration and recovery. Not to mention that they likely have some wealth from undersea treasure that could circulate within the Hordeās economy as well as fortify some coastal territories and outposts. Also, seeing as The Unshackled has multiple races within its ranks, they all could provide various uses in underwater situations. Seeing as they can hunt in the oceans to feed themselves, I donāt see any cons of allowing them into the Horde.
So how then would we address the needs of some of these races, as shown in the Vulpera scenario?
Well, serious ones like major naga attacks could be required to address the Horde leaders in general, but why not set up a bounty board for Horde members looking for work to help out with various tasks? Write up what you need, paste it on a bulletin board, and get adventurers to come to you? Horde members find work, they help you out with stuff, they get paid, and that money would go into the economy. Not the perfect solution, but at the very least, Vulpera would get a lot of use out of it to help out with the smaller problems.
So does Baineās comment mean the chances of new races joining the Horde would be low? Not at all. Weāll likely see more new races and theyāll bring a lot of benefits to joining. Besides, when the world (of Warcraft!) get threatened, you need as many people as you can get to take on the big bad and make sure everything doesnāt explode and end. Iād be surprised if any of what Baine was worried about would get mentioned the next time someone wants to join the Horde. When the next war with the Alliance comes, the Horde will continue to need allies as well to help out both in new and old territories.
Perhaps Iām thinking too much on the subject. It is a game, after all, and new races are always an exciting feature that will continue to get added. Still, I felt like it should be looked at and discussed. I just donāt think itās anything serious or a hint that there would never be new races in the foreseeable future.
Now if youāll excuse me, Iām gonna see if I can find Kiro and get the Vulpera to help me figure out whatās going on with the Horde Ogre clans, the Sanālayn, and to seek out Saurok tribes we havenāt seen yet to work on getting them inducted into the Horde. I swear if Baine tries that āspreading the Horde thinā malarkey on me, Iām going to smack him something fierce.
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Hey folks, some good news in that I may be able to finish the majority of my online classās work somewhat early in the near future, so that could give me some free time for some stuff Iāve been wanting to do for this megathread. Hopefully I didnāt scare people off with the wall of text in my previous post, something which I donāt know if I wrote it up to convey my point very well to begin with.
Letās shift gears back to lizardmen stuff, shall we?
Since Iām at three posts in a row, which Iām unsure if I can post four or more times in a row, I wanted to open another discussion up on the subject of female lizardmen races. Iāve come across this video of the game āDivinity: Original Sin 2ā which shows the customization options for the Lizard race in the game, both male and female:
Definitely some Saurok customization inspiration here, though the main thing I wanted to mention was the female Lizard. Something you may notice is that you can tell from a glance the differences between male and female Lizards. Youāll also notice that the female Lizards do not appear to have breasts.
This is a pretty good example of how to make a female reptilian race and make them look both feminine and different from their male counterparts. There are also some unique customization options for males and females.
I wanted to mention this as an example of what you can do with female lizardman races in general. Iām still of the opinion that you canāt just slap breasts on a reptilian race and call it a day, and that there are several ways to work with customization options to make female reptilian races look awesome.
If Saurok ever get to become playable, one of the many things people will be looking to see is what female Saurok look like. If you just put breasts on them, theyāll likely just get made fun of and people wouldnāt really take them seriously. However, if you make some cool customization options, scale patterns, and suchā¦it has a chance of really being a big deal. A much bigger positive impact at first impressions, for sure.
It does seem like Iāll need spend some time researching reptilian females (stop laughing you perverts, you know what I mean!). Then I could give better suggestions on how to best design female Saurok. Iāll continue to look for examples to link to show how other companies have designed female lizardmen races in general.
Since female Saurok will likely continue to be a topic we talk about a lot throughout this megathreadās life, Iād like to ask what everyone thinks of the video. Replies would also be appreciated so I can continue to post my research findings.
More Saurok research to continue in the future!
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Iād like saurok because it would be nice to have a game do a lizard person right for once. They always look so bad in other games.
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We just saw a retcon, as seen in The Wolfās Son.
Indeed.
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Ooo. What was it!?
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They made a subtle change in the final part, where Anduin, already aged, talking to Velen, before the final attack on a threat that before, was imagined as Void (?) By Velenās words, but that later, had his lines removed.
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That change is an interesting one, though I donāt really know what it means. I know there have been a lot of rumors of a timeskip after Shadowlands, though what it would involve and how it would be handled remains to be seen. We likely wonāt know anything until expansion after Shadowlands gets announced.
Iām unsure of my feelings of a timeskip in general. It would be a bit odd to see several of my characters, who were created when I first started WoW during BC, see Anduin go from little kid to bearded adult man while my characters have never aged at all. It also would require some revamping of several of the continents to be up-to-date, which I donāt know if Blizzard would pull another Cataclysm or not. It really depends on how they handle it if I would like it or not.
At least in terms of Saurok, a timeskip would mean time for them as a race to grow and evolve, maybe a tribe forms a civilization of some sort somewhere and hopefully become friendly enough to work with and even join the Horde in the right circumstances. I know that warping to a future of playable Saurok would be a very tempting thing for me.
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