The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

Community General Discussion
1362
10/11/2018 06:03 AMPosted by Lorithyn
10/11/2018 05:20 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
...

When you say race of thalassian elves you make it sound like they are different aside from politics. They aren't Politics are not enough of a detraction to make them a separate allied race For the opposite faction. You need to go void elf/Nightbourne visual change worthy. And those two were changed so much that blizzard no longer considers them what they originally were.

So as we all know, Blood Elves are High Elves just with a different moniker. If kael'thas had decided to forgo the name and just ended up with the Horde then you'd still have the same people not agreeing with his choice. But then they would just be called High Elves. Nightbourne were changed over thousands and thousands of years, void elves are changed at the genetic level. High Elves??? They have a different originating hub thats all.


I'd argue that they don't need to be different genetically to be considered for an allied race. They are a particular group of elves, a race of thalassian elves, who are allied with the Alliance... An allied race, if you will. While they're all but the same race their political differences couldn't be more apparent. So much in fact that they will attack and kill each other

I understand the concern for them though, it all boils down to visuals in the end. If the faction lines are important, High Elves could be made to look different enough. It doesn't take 10,000 years of isolation to have different idle animations hair styles and body proportions, but if it does there's been a significant population of High Elves living in Dalaran for thousands of years who have lived separately from the Blood Elves of Quel'thalas. We know this to be canon as of Chronicles V3, which goes so far as to explain that they have cultural differences too

They have the population, they have the lore, they support the Alliance, they are politically different, they couldbe visually different, and Lord knows they are in demand from the player base. Everything points to Alliance High Elves being playable at some point


I disagree, though High Elf Adventurers set out from their homeland they kept with them their class traditions. Before the 15 years that separates Lich king and after they were all bound to one another. They still visited the well. They practiced magic. Just because they stayed in Stormwind doesn't mean it was for everyday of their lives. As you know High Elves and Blood Elves are both heavily effected by magic. Since they would have continued to use the Magic of the well until Kaels decree nothing would have changed. Even so, after Kaels death Lorthemar allows any High Elf to return to the well.
1363
10/11/2018 08:27 AMPosted by Harlequin
10/11/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Crøwley

More delusions lol


Were money to be the driving factor, this game would be monitized out the rear so bad EA would even do a double take. Want Pathfinder? Drop 60 bucks?

Instant access to an allied race of your choosing? 60 bucks?

Let's be glad that isn't their driving factor.


I mean at a certain point you are losing money because you are too greedy
just like the backlash EA has been getting for years.
1 Like
1364
10/11/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Alurna
10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
That is the level of change that makes them viable, a complete remaking of everything they were before, which does not diminish or take from the Bloodelf concept.


10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
Let's not kid ourselves, Highelves -had- to be one of the first Allied Race concepts Blizzard discussed.


10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
How many ideas were thrown around before they settled on the idea of Voidelf being unique enough?


Here's the thing... Void Elves are Blood Elves, not High Elves. Blizzard completely missed the mark here. It wouldn't have been impossible for Alleria to go looking for missing members of her forces from the Sons of Lothar and find them at Telogrus, already transformed. Or for her to have joined the Silver Covenant in a battle against some Void threat in Silithus and the Silver Covenant was turned into Void Elves.

Those kinds of stories would've been infinitely better received than random Blood Elves, who were part of the Horde, studying the Void to protect Quel'Thalas, and then turn around and fight it.

As I've said before, if different hairstyles and such are enough to set Nightborne apart from Night Elves, then it should suffice for High Elves, there is absolutely no need for this double-standard hypocrisy.

Likewise, as I've said before, be careful what you wish for. Just think of Draco'dorei. Dragon Elves. More powerful, and instead of tentacles being the major differing factor, it'd be horns. Lorewise at least one can argue they'd be biologically different. I could see Dragon Elves having clutches of eggs.


You are wrong. Completely wrong. Blood Elves are High Elves. No amount of mental gymnastics can get around that fact. So if they are High Elves with just a differing name and political stance then Void Elves are indeed still High Elves. They have been tainted by the Void, a Magic, which heavily influences all Elves. Which is why we have them looking the way they do. When BE's turned to fel, most unwittingly their eyes turned green. When the Elves turned to void we got Void Elves. I'd bet just about anything that we start seeing High Elves go void in retribution against the BE.

Put a night elf and a Nightbourne side by side and you can pretty obviously know the difference. None of this black silhouette garbage let them stand next to each other and you will know. Sorry but Nightbourne have just little more going for them besides hair lol.

I wont even entertain the dragon elf delusions.
1365
10/11/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Alurna
10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
That is the level of change that makes them viable, a complete remaking of everything they were before, which does not diminish or take from the Bloodelf concept.


10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
Let's not kid ourselves, Highelves -had- to be one of the first Allied Race concepts Blizzard discussed.


10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
How many ideas were thrown around before they settled on the idea of Voidelf being unique enough?


Here's the thing... Void Elves are Blood Elves, not High Elves. Blizzard completely missed the mark here. It wouldn't have been impossible for Alleria to go looking for missing members of her forces from the Sons of Lothar and find them at Telogrus, already transformed. Or for her to have joined the Silver Covenant in a battle against some Void threat in Silithus and the Silver Covenant was turned into Void Elves.

Those kinds of stories would've been infinitely better received than random Blood Elves, who were part of the Horde, studying the Void to protect Quel'Thalas, and then turn around and fight it.

As I've said before, if different hairstyles and such are enough to set Nightborne apart from Night Elves, then it should suffice for High Elves, there is absolutely no need for this double-standard hypocrisy.

Likewise, as I've said before, be careful what you wish for. Just think of Draco'dorei. Dragon Elves. More powerful, and instead of tentacles being the major differing factor, it'd be horns. Lorewise at least one can argue they'd be biologically different. I could see Dragon Elves having clutches of eggs.


Ah yes I forgot to mention my Nightborne comment. I'll add that now.

I see often people try to bring up the Nightborne as an excuse for why HIghelves should be made their own race, stating "They are just Nightelves but on the Horde".

I find this to be a misdirection and if anything purely opinion.

The Nightborne are the last remnants of the original Nightelf society, having existed for over 10,000 years to themselves and evolved with influence to the Nightwell. They became dependent on it for sustenance and life-force. They developed into a wholly unique concept.

Nightborne appear very different from Nightelves. Their culture is based on more temporal and arcane capabilities that almost exudes from their very auras, whereas Nightelves prefer a closeness to nature. Nightborne enjoy pampering themselves with riches and delicacies while Nightelves take what is needed.

It is two very distinct races here that in no way overshadowed the other, except for "other purple elf". You think of Nightelf and you think "wild/nature elf", while you think of Nightborne and you think of "rich nobility time elves".

In truth, Nightborne do border close to the Bloodelf concept, except for Bloodelves being more darker and taking pride in their bloodline, while Nightborne seem to be more focused on their luxuries and growth.

Funny enough, the Nightelves and NIghtborne dont share skin tones, facial structure, ear structure, or heck most hair colors with nightelves. This is a product of evolution. The only thing they share mainly is the skeleton used.

P.S: You mentioned the idea of Alliance Highelves becoming Voidelves, and this satisfying most. I'm all for this, if it will end this all.
1366
Changing the High elves in game to void elves will NOT fix the issue. That boat sailed and at this point will just be so forced and a cop out.

If they don’t want to add high elves because they don’t want too, that’s fine, but making all turn void elves won’t make things better.

The High elves are right there and always present in the game. Its just trolling to keep parading them in front of the player base. “You can look and dream but no touchy touchy”
1 Like
1367
10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
You are wrong. Completely wrong. Blood Elves are High Elves. No amount of mental gymnastics can get around that fact.


https://www.wowhead.com/news=287534/patch-8-1-ptr-broadcast-text-blood-elf-heritage-armor-questline

"We are no longer high elves!"


10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
I'd bet just about anything that we start seeing High Elves go void in retribution against the BE.


Why? They didn't go Fel in retribution or anything. Most High Elves currently alive don't even want to live in Quel'Thalas. Many have been long-time citizens of Dalaran and prefer to live there.

I'll never understand why people think High Elves would WANT to embrace the Void, other than the handful in the Telogrus Rift. The Void is dangerous, it's corrupting, it's insanity-inducing. It's all around a terrible power to be studying. The Void Elves, arguably, get a pass because their research wasn't focusing on weaponizing the Void, but understanding it in a way as to protect from it.

10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
Put a night elf and a Nightbourne side by side and you can pretty obviously know the difference.


Sure, let's try that.

https://i.redd.it/30db25i60ju01.png

So... it's the background, right? I mean, the ears curve a little differently, but otherwise...

10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
I wont even entertain the dragon elf delusions.


Why not? It's no less terrible fanfiction level of writing than Void Elves, and it'd give Alliance players their long-requested High Elves.
1 Like
1368
10/10/2018 07:44 PMPosted by Proffit
10/10/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Talendrion
Jesting aside, may I ask you what you think is the purpose of this thread?


I suppose to debate the existence and purpose of High Elves as well as the desire for them to be a playable race.

To me it mostly shows that even when given a reasonable facsimile of what has been asked for, the community of this game will continue to demand, debate, and outright argue over the need for more.

Most of the time I am all about saying that Blizzard should give us more than they do, because they should, on this one I kind of believe they have given what has been asked for and now we are arguing over cosmetics. Like being given a car and being unhappy that it is blue and not the red you imagined it would be.


Fair point, but I must stress that Void Elves as a Compromise of High Elves, are a failure, and is nowhere close to be a reasonable facsimile of what HE fans wanted.

If Void Elves had been, lorewise, being made out of High Elves already loyal to the alliance, I would completely agree with you.

Yet the issue is for people that liked HE, that mostly liked them because of the Silver Covenant, Void Elves offer nothing but a, shall I say it for hyperbole's face, slap in the face. Heh, but for real, the easier choice would have been to just make the VE from HE on the first place.
1369
10/10/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Shadows
10/10/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Aidre
...

Oh! You reminded me about Suramar!

In this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn4M1q-a38E
@29 seconds

This is yet another point against people who say "High Elves are Blood Elves". The High Elves (Quel'dorei) are actually specifically mentioned in it! And that was just in Legion. :)


No one has denied there are political differences between both groups, but political differences alone aren't enough to warrant being a playable race.


The whole point of the argument is that they should. Horde and Alliance are literally political factions, that the divide is based on race, when in the lore there are races split between the factions, is silly.

Yet most people are still in for making HE as distinct as possible to preserve "faction integrity" even if not even everyone agrees with it as a point.
1370
High Elfs The Infinity War!!

I tought that by now the banhammer would have droped on this thread!

We need some recap post here just to know what have been posted so far!

How far do you guys thinks this will go before they close it ? We are heading to 1500 post!

On High Elfs question i'll repeat my self, eitheir let us play with then or stop adding elf on the alliance story and zones every time!

It is no funny to go the warfront portal and see a high elf, then see more high elfs on the gunship before the battle. I'm won't even start on the dozens of high elfs NPC's we have around the world giving us quests, selling stuff and so on.

So please stop adding then to the alliance story or let us play with then!

/cheers!
1371
10/10/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Shadows
10/10/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Aidre
...

Oh! You reminded me about Suramar!

In this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn4M1q-a38E
@29 seconds

This is yet another point against people who say "High Elves are Blood Elves". The High Elves (Quel'dorei) are actually specifically mentioned in it! And that was just in Legion. :)


No one has denied there are political differences between both groups, but political differences alone aren't enough to warrant being a playable race.


The whole point of the argument is that they should. Horde and Alliance are literally political factions, that the divide is based on race, when in the lore there are races split between the factions, is silly.

Yet most people are still in for making HE as distinct as possible to preserve "faction integrity" even if not even everyone agrees with it as a point.

10/10/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Wyspers
10/10/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Fliktarg
People can call our mock ups headcanon


Absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact for or against something it's some of the best fuel for the creatives over at Blizzard. I've seen a bunch of videos where they mention headcannon in some way, they are always excited. They love the fans when the fans love what they make for them. Which is why this whole enterprise exists in the first place (you). That you take it the extra step to create in step with them is the biggest compliment they can get from any fan.

Keep going.


As for that, well, lol.

The reason people -like me- make those mock ups, is to show that High Elves can be conceivable made to look different, like a concept proof. To say "that's not canon that's just your stupid headcanon" misses the point entirely.

Whether people agree or not that such concepts succeed in proving that "HE can be made different enough" is subjective, but that has nothing to do with "headcanon"

The point is to show that HE can be made different, not that "HE should look like I say so"
1372
I would really advice against people getting their expectations up by this thread's extension.

10/11/2018 05:48 AMPosted by Xathra
10/10/2018 06:42 PMPosted by Talendrion
High Elves are as impossible as the developer's sensibilities dictate so.

They want to preserve faction identity; that's the reason why HE aren't playable, they look too much like BE.

So what if they decide "if we make them look different enough, that's okay"

Justifications of why they look different come after the decision they need to look different. And as for those justifications, look at any idea presented on this thread.

If you call that a headcanon, you are missing the point of those ideas. The point is that HE can conceivably made to look aesthetically dissimilar to Blood Elves


There isn't even faction balance right now is why that is so dumb there is a 10% gap at max level and it's growing it's up to 20% in eu.


Regardless of faction balance, you can't dismiss the fact that BE and Horde players feel that HE would take away from BE aesthetics if they simply looked the same.

That is a fact that can't be overlooked, and sure can be dismissed, but honestly? I play both factions, it's not my intention to actually make horde players feel like they are loosing something.

That's the reason why many ideas revolve around making High Elves sufficiently, and reasonably, different. The impetus for a "different model" is not because HE players want to be cooler -show of hands of how many HE fans would be just happy with easily color swapped BE models- but it's actually an attempt to understand and consider the community as a whole.

High Elves can be made to be reasonably and sufficiently different in a way that most of the community would agree with that, that is what a compromise is. If you don't want any compromise, sure, that's your prerogative, my point is that this is not an issue of what side wins, but how we all can be the happier for it.

"No compromise We deserve High Elves" and "Void Elves are your compromise" are two extremes I don't vibe with. We are talking about a video game, this is not an issue that warrants any radicalization either way.
1373
10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
10/11/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Alurna
...

...

...

Here's the thing... Void Elves are Blood Elves, not High Elves. Blizzard completely missed the mark here. It wouldn't have been impossible for Alleria to go looking for missing members of her forces from the Sons of Lothar and find them at Telogrus, already transformed. Or for her to have joined the Silver Covenant in a battle against some Void threat in Silithus and the Silver Covenant was turned into Void Elves.

Those kinds of stories would've been infinitely better received than random Blood Elves, who were part of the Horde, studying the Void to protect Quel'Thalas, and then turn around and fight it.

As I've said before, if different hairstyles and such are enough to set Nightborne apart from Night Elves, then it should suffice for High Elves, there is absolutely no need for this double-standard hypocrisy.

Likewise, as I've said before, be careful what you wish for. Just think of Draco'dorei. Dragon Elves. More powerful, and instead of tentacles being the major differing factor, it'd be horns. Lorewise at least one can argue they'd be biologically different. I could see Dragon Elves having clutches of eggs.


You are wrong. Completely wrong. Blood Elves are High Elves. No amount of mental gymnastics can get around that fact. So if they are High Elves with just a differing name and political stance then Void Elves are indeed still High Elves. They have been tainted by the Void, a Magic, which heavily influences all Elves. Which is why we have them looking the way they do. When BE's turned to fel, most unwittingly their eyes turned green. When the Elves turned to void we got Void Elves. I'd bet just about anything that we start seeing High Elves go void in retribution against the BE.

Put a night elf and a Nightbourne side by side and you can pretty obviously know the difference. None of this black silhouette garbage let them stand next to each other and you will know. Sorry but Nightbourne have just little more going for them besides hair lol.

I wont even entertain the dragon elf delusions.


You really don't get that the reason of why people want High Elves is BECAUSE of their political and factional affiliation?

The answer is literally about how different things would have been if VE had been made out of HE and you completely dismiss that, please explain.

Also as an aside: Lol, until NB got their unique pose and used the NE one, the difference between them was MINIMAL.

Please someone grab the comparison screenshot.
1 Like
1374
10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
Highelves cant be differentiated to a large enough extent from Bloodelves without defeating the purpose of what they currently are. As proof, look at Void Elves. The Bloodelf model that was taken and twisted into a completely new theme based on a darker concept, simply to give the model to the Alliance as well as a High-elf based concept. That is the level of change that makes them viable, a complete remaking of everything they were before, which does not diminish or take from the Bloodelf concept.


Did it sit well with the Pro-Helf fans? No. It was rejected, yet it was also the only viable option they came up with.

Let's not kid ourselves, Highelves -had- to be one of the first Allied Race concepts Blizzard discussed. Do you think they dont know about the requests? Of course they do. They always have.

Taking that into consideration, you can almost picture the decision-making process and how it all came to be rejected and turned towards Void elves. "We cant just give them Highelves because it is just Bloodelves. The idea is almost identical. It takes away from the theme. What about a variant?". How many ideas were thrown around before they settled on the idea of Voidelf being unique enough?

Will Blizzard end up regretting this decision and introducing yet another race using the Bloodelf model? Maybe....but I highly doubt it. Until then, the Alliance Highelves will continue to be used as they were intended to: To push forward a story and conflict of the Highelven remnant as a whole.

That is all I have to say on the matter. Enjoy the wishful thinking and brainstorming.


/end thread
1375
10/11/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Shadows
10/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Eleroleron
Highelves cant be differentiated to a large enough extent from Bloodelves without defeating the purpose of what they currently are. As proof, look at Void Elves. The Bloodelf model that was taken and twisted into a completely new theme based on a darker concept, simply to give the model to the Alliance as well as a High-elf based concept. That is the level of change that makes them viable, a complete remaking of everything they were before, which does not diminish or take from the Bloodelf concept.


Did it sit well with the Pro-Helf fans? No. It was rejected, yet it was also the only viable option they came up with.

Let's not kid ourselves, Highelves -had- to be one of the first Allied Race concepts Blizzard discussed. Do you think they dont know about the requests? Of course they do. They always have.

Taking that into consideration, you can almost picture the decision-making process and how it all came to be rejected and turned towards Void elves. "We cant just give them Highelves because it is just Bloodelves. The idea is almost identical. It takes away from the theme. What about a variant?". How many ideas were thrown around before they settled on the idea of Voidelf being unique enough?

Will Blizzard end up regretting this decision and introducing yet another race using the Bloodelf model? Maybe....but I highly doubt it. Until then, the Alliance Highelves will continue to be used as they were intended to: To push forward a story and conflict of the Highelven remnant as a whole.

That is all I have to say on the matter. Enjoy the wishful thinking and brainstorming.


/end thread


Amen.
1376
10/11/2018 08:52 AMPosted by Tyrandia
Changing the High elves in game to void elves will NOT fix the issue. That boat sailed and at this point will just be so forced and a cop out.

If they don’t want to add high elves because they don’t want too, that’s fine, but making all turn void elves won’t make things better.

The High elves are right there and always present in the game. Its just trolling to keep parading them in front of the player base. “You can look and dream but no touchy touchy”


I think I disagree with this on principle, because even if you personally don't like it... it could still happen, it is still a viable possibility to "resolve" High Elves.

We must ll be conscious that the solution we get might not be the one we wanted.

There are a number of conceivable reasons why the remaining High Elves could feel forced to join the ren'dorei, that both their leaders are sisters makes it downright likely as a way to go about it, specially if the ren'dorei find a way to make a safer transformation and develop proceses to suppress the whispers of the void -After years of living with addiction, it's not hard to think that HE could have the necessary willpower for it either-

As for what forces them; well, it can be a plague, being cut from the Sunwell again, the realization they ARE a dying race, anything really. It's not inconceivable
1377
10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
You are wrong. Completely wrong. Blood Elves are High Elves. No amount of mental gymnastics can get around that fact.


https://www.wowhead.com/news=287534/patch-8-1-ptr-broadcast-text-blood-elf-heritage-armor-questline

"We are no longer high elves!"


10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
I'd bet just about anything that we start seeing High Elves go void in retribution against the BE.


Why? They didn't go Fel in retribution or anything. Most High Elves currently alive don't even want to live in Quel'Thalas. Many have been long-time citizens of Dalaran and prefer to live there.

I'll never understand why people think High Elves would WANT to embrace the Void, other than the handful in the Telogrus Rift. The Void is dangerous, it's corrupting, it's insanity-inducing. It's all around a terrible power to be studying. The Void Elves, arguably, get a pass because their research wasn't focusing on weaponizing the Void, but understanding it in a way as to protect from it.

10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
Put a night elf and a Nightbourne side by side and you can pretty obviously know the difference.


Sure, let's try that.

https://i.redd.it/30db25i60ju01.png

So... it's the background, right? I mean, the ears curve a little differently, but otherwise...

10/11/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
I wont even entertain the dragon elf delusions.


Why not? It's no less terrible fanfiction level of writing than Void Elves, and it'd give Alliance players their long-requested High Elves.


First nice try with the nightelf pic, put their separate models side by side no bullspit tricks please thanks.

"we are no longer high elves" is not meant to be taken the way you are. They are called Blood Elves. His declaration does not change him from the Thalassian hes always been. Please dont try to use trickery and deceit.
1378
High elves!!!
1379
10/11/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
First nice try with the nightelf pic, put their separate models side by side no bullspit tricks please thanks.


Dude that's no deceit; that's what NB models looked like before they got their unique idle stance. As they were re-made from NE to be playable, early builds still did have the NE stance.

https://i.imgur.com/d9gKSni.jpg
1 Like
1380
All I want to say before friday is:

If we do ever get promised high elves, I really want a period of patches dedicated to atleast some quests to tell their story and build them back up from just being set pieces.
1381
10/11/2018 09:50 AMPosted by Tunkaningan
10/11/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Talendrion
...

You really don't get that the reason of why people want High Elves is BECAUSE of their political and factional affiliation?

The answer is literally about how different things would have been if VE had been made out of HE and you completely dismiss that, please explain.

Also as an aside: Lol, until NB got their unique pose and used the NE one, the difference between them was MINIMAL.

Please someone grab the comparison screenshot.


Oh i understand all right and its not enough. Sorry, not enough to warrant a cross faction swap. That bull picture Alurna likes to float around is the most generous pairing of the two to work in your favor. Show everyone two separate elf bodies and please try to avoid the closest looking skin tone eh? You feed into your own bias.


There's nothing "bull" about that comparison; it's just literally the NB playable model before the NB stance being added. What bias are you claiming? We presented you evidence that beyond idle posture and hairstyles, there's little difference between the NE and NB model.
1 Like