There’s a difference between asking lore to be changed (retconed) and speculating about future lure regarding their implementation such as recruitment scenario, customization and classes. In the end we are suggesting and speculating about future and not asking for Blizzard to change past lore, because it’s not needed.
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I…don’t see the difference. You either profess that the existing lore for High Elves is adequate to merit them being playable, or you advocate for changes to X, Y, Z and create a new lore precedent for those changes to merit it.
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I love the fact that my most liked post in all the forums is one of the few replies I did in the anti-thread.
90 likes so far and counting.
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New lore =/= Retcon.
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Actually in the old forums your response had more likes than the original post, but they were lost in the transition.
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Oof. I am saving this one.
Vitriol was still pretty high for my thread back then. Seems the overall High Elf issue is simmering down, really.
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Also, i would appreciate if you quote ay moment i suggested to retcon established lore.
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Example: If High Elves got playable Druids, that would both be new lore and a retcon.
Let no words be minced about it.
Hey guys, it’s been a while. Hope everyone’s well. Just chiming in to comment on what I’ve seen recently, then gotta get back into the very busy world!
I want to point out that I’ve been noticing that the High Elf discussions (both from this thread and Lydon’s) tend to have moments where they run back into circular discussions which impede the forward progress of the creative discussions that happen around this topic and in this thread. For this circular discussion to stop popping up all the time, I give these points of advice:
- If someone comes in with an argument that’s been debated at length before, then re-direct them to gladly peruse over the past discussions on that particular argument
- The Vulpera and San’layn threads do this re-directing often, and it works wonders for their threads where I see much less circular discussion happening
- Ion said what he said in April sure, and High Elf talk has taken those into consideration since, but Alex Afrasiabi also more recently said, “don’t give up hope!” when it came to High Elf topics.
- Sure the question Alex responded to was in context of Void Elf customization, his response was still aimed obviously toward those wanting High Elves.
I know with a lot of the personalities in this thread, it’s sometimes hard to stop yourself from getting back into a circular discussion. But I think there’s been enough said on the subject of, “Can High Elves happen?” vs the subject of, “What neat ways can High Elves be implemented?”
And this brings me to my 2nd point I wanted to chime in on.
I like that Fyorsing brought some more discussion to the High Elf subject by presenting a possible way of implementation. I’ve seen at times where most of the regular participants here are having discussions on High Elf jokes/flirts, or other possibilities to put forth towards Blizzard on how High Elves could be implemented.
That’s good discussion, that moves the topic forward, and avoids circular and tired argumentation. Good! Have more of that. It’s like what Aedrid said,
Let’s try to get more of this in. Not saying someone can’t come in and be critical of some of the ideas presented on the brainstorming that happens, rather to cut down on what’s been argued ad-naseum.
Blizzard is the final arbiter when it comes to the decision of whether High Elves can work or not. Yeah they’ve said “no plans in the near term” last April. They also said “don’t give up hope” last November. Blizzard’s official responses on this topic changed within a year. And maybe at some future point it could change again, no one knows besides Blizzard. But the last response certainly encourages discussion.
Anyways, wishing everyone well and hoping this helps cut down on circular discussions going forward. Be well everyone!
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My Gods you just pull crap out of the air to try and make your point.
What “all evidence?” There’s been ZERO evidence that High Elves are being rolled into Void Elves. There are and have been WAY more High Elven NPC’s no where NEAR Telogrus Rift than the few that are there.
"One of the few named High Elves " … oy. Alleria may have helped the Void Elves but Umbric is their leader, not Alleria. And I know the names of more High Elves than I do Blood Elves, Highmountain Tauren, Nightborne, Goblins, Worgen, Kul’tiran, and Foresaken.
Seriously Fyre you need to stop. At least Lydon sounds intelligent in his comments and posts actual fact. You scream with as much falsehood and conjecture as you claim the pro-Helf people do.
You talk like someone who’s watched all 11 season of Grey’s Anatomy so suddenly you know more about medicine than actual doctors.
And yes Lydon, I have said on numerous occasions that Bliz could have wrapped this entire debate up by having Alleria return and find High Elves delving into the void. She rallies the High Elves and trains them all in the Void and BAM! No more High Elves. Helfs are Velfs now and forever.
But no: Bliz went with their ridiculous idea, threw in a 10 min intro story, and leave everyone with the hope that it’s because they want to leave the door open for High Elves as their own race (which Bliz has said IS always a possibility in a later interview).
The thing is I would LOVE playable High Elves and I love coming in here to see the ideas people come up with on how they could be playable but I have NO faith in Ion or the team to actually implement anything the players actually ask for so I have my doubts. I think it’s MORE likely that Void Elves at some point will be given more customization that will allow them to look more High Elven and that’s where Bliz could possibly leave it.
I don’t spam that theory cause I’m not here to try and rain on the parades of people who enjoy optimism and enthusiasm over the topic.
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In lore: There are no High Elf Druids.
But what exacly prevents them to learning Druidism and receiving a connection to the Emerald Dream in the future?
Adding classes to playable races rarely is a retcon, the examples are all over the place.
Many races in Vanilla got classes they didn’t had before, all the sudden Taurens could be Druids and Humans could be Warlocks, no retcon.
Blood Elves getting Paladins in BC wasn’t a retcon.
No retcon in Cata Troll Druids and Legion Gnome Hunters.
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Appreciate you popping in! Take care!
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Isn’t it sort of implied, in-universe, that when one type of magic coalesces with another type of magic the effects of either type become less pronounced?
If we assume the answer to be yes, and if we presume that the primary purpose of any cooperation between High Elves and Void Elves is to create and secure a power source with which they can both satiate their addiction, wouldn’t creating something that is roughly 50% Arcane-based and 50% Void-based would be a tolerable scenario?
The goal not being to change the High Elves in any substantial way, but instead to utilize Void Elves as a narrative jumping-off point for implementing the former.
I agree. To the topic of morality, I would posit that Blizzard seems quite adamant about depicting the Light and the Void as being equally capable of being utilized towards objectively good or objectively bad ends; which is to say, with time people will likely warm to the presence of the Void.
It’s worth noting that humanity has been wielding the Light (as a doctrinal faith) for ~2,800 years. The Void, by comparison, is a relatively unknown entity – which Blizzard appears to be fleshing out with haste, these last couple expansions.
The original notion was simply for Void Elves to piggyback the High Elves into a more unique position, thematically, which would then help Blizzard justify their addition into the game – this doesn’t really require any fundamental adjustments of their mannerisms, or morals, because those are already unique.
No, what they’re lacking (as far as Blizzard, and many people who are against them being implemented in their current iteration(s) are concerned) is a defined aesthetic of their own. This largely involves having instantly recognizable motifs – and the Void, utilized with an extremely light-hand, offers a cornucopia of thematically divergent concepts.
I believe it’d be more accurate to say, “they continue to cope”, no? In either case, I don’t disagree – rather, I’m merely considering anything that serves to further the aesthetic divide between High Elves and Blood Elves.
I’m pretty sure the sponge analogy for Thalassians was your analogy, if I recall, so you should know that the ambient energy they “sponge up” doesn’t at all reflect upon their day-to-day professions. Which is to say that Blood Elf Warlocks aren’t actively siphoning from the Sunwell in order to summon demons, but they surely allow for the ambient energy of the Sunwell to satiate the pangs of their addiction – what I’ve proposed would be no different.
If you were a High Elf Priest, you continue being a High Elf Priest.
If you were a High Elf Paladin, you continue being a High Elf Paladin (though, I’m fairly certain that as a Paladin you wouldn’t actually need any external power source anyways).
I agree, wholeheartedly, but musing on potentialities is intriguing to me.
To the notion of utilizing Shamanism, I find it interesting that the Alliance has a handful of races (playable, and unplayable) that are basically recognized as having a near-complete mastery over their element of choice:
- The Dark Irons have mastered fire.
- The Kul’Tirans have mastered water.
- The Wildhammer have mastered air.
- The Pandaren have mastered spirit.
- The Draenei haven’t mastered anything, apparently.
![:sob:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/sob.png?v=6" ":sob:")
There’s clearly space for earth-based mastery on the Alliance, which might be able to be worked into the idea of High Elves being naturally defensive of their compatriots.
After typing all of this last post, I really needed a chuckle. Thanks, Ly.
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Tauren Paladins (Sunwalkers) would be a great example of new lore and also a retcon.
Blood Elves getting Paladins was also a big retcon, by Metzen’s own admission. Paladins were a class only utilized and established in the Alliance to that point. New lore was created to explain it, but it also changed the established lore of Paladins to that point in time.
Night Elf mages are another excellent example of a retcon, using new lore to invent some insulated Highborne and then rewrite the Night Elves to allow them back in society.
I’m respectfully saying you are completely, demonstrably wrong here. I’m not saying every piece of new lore is also a retcon, but to say there is never a case where both are true is not correct.
If something new is added into the narrative, without requiring any existing information to be changed for it to make sense, it’s not a retcon – like, by definition.
There were no existing pieces of information that stated either:
- “It would be an impossibility for Tauren to become Paladins.”
- “It would be an impossibility for Night Elves to tolerate Mages.”
If you find those, in any published material, then we’ll talk.
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So what exactly makes High elves the exception and immune to retcon and lore changes?
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That’s not the case at all. New lore that also changes or reverses what was previously established there would be considered a retcon.
Let me strike closer to home:
High Elves get new lore explaining they have learned from their Void Elf friends how to wield Fel magic properly and roll Warlocks.
New lore or retcon?
High Elves curious about their Night Elf/Blood Elf cousins in the Illidari get new lore to allow them to undergo the process of becoming a Demon Hunter.
New lore, or retcon?
To me, the answer in each case is both.
There is no logical justification to oppose playable Alliance High Elves.
Countered arguments:
They are biologically the same race - Not relevant because they exist on both factions, and have cultural and political differences. Pandaren exist on both factions as well and stand as an example that this is not a relevant argument. And while some erroneously claim Blizzard thinks Pandaren were a mistake, in truth, no Blizzard employee has ever said such a thing. A former employee once said he thought they were a mistake, but that is one former employee’s opinion and not one every corroborated by anyone while employed at Blizzard.
They look the same - They don’t have to. Simple things like a unique idle stance, different hair styles, and different customization options all address the silhouette issue and none of those things require any sort of physiological or magical excuse to justify. Also, currently a Void Elf in full armor has an identical silhouette to a Blood Elf in the same full armor. A unique idle stance alone would make the High Elf silhouette noticeably different from either.
High Elves detract from the Blood Elf story - No they really don’t. High Elves have their own story to tell that has nothing to do with Blood Elves beyond the point of their split. That is the story that High Elves have to tell and should be focused on.
High Elves are already playable on the Horde - Blood Elves are playable on the Horde. The High Elves being asked for currently exist as NPC’s on the Alliance faction. We are asking for those High Elves to be made playable.
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Except those weren’t the questions he was asking- plus High elf demon hunters wont work for multiple reasons.
- The process of becoming a Demon Hunter would turn a High elf into a Blood elf,
- it would break the faction balance, (one horde DH race and TWO alliance?)
- they would have to rewrite the ENTIRE Illidari lore to fit them into them into the game- PLUS find an excuse on why they were “missing” during Legion.
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Um, yes. They would have to retcon.
That was, kind of the entire point of the post.