A single questchain from seven years ago by a person who no longer works at Blizzard. That there’s not a more recent example rather undercuts the strength of the annoyance.
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Isn’t Worgen also on here atleast in terms of Human Fatigue apart of being a Human Kingdom of Gilneas?
Why would anyone have worgen fatigue when they never been relevant? What kind of question is that?
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Sure, why not, let me get my version of the old gripe out.
So, from the Horde side, my main complaint is that victory never really feels “earned”. It’s a random dues ex machina or an attack on civilians or completely out of left field where I’m left going “why are we doing this again” while I tromp on… well, statistically speaking, the heads of unprepared civilians with my dues ex machina. Unprovoked and disproportionate “retribution” might be fun once in a blue moon, but the shine comes off it really fast when it’s every time we dust off the old faction war for another go around. And the antagonists are never really built up as characters I should want to fight. Even when there’s a name and a face, they’re usually portrayed as more sympathetic than my omnicidal green butt (well, usually blue since I’m mostly a Darkspear). So it’s kind of hard to want to fight, fighting feels pointless at best and cruel at worst… And then inevitably, we reset to near status quo with a staunch lecture about whatever warcrimes the questgivers had me do for this expac’s ponies (and I’m a sucker for a good pony), and I get put in the time out corner to think about how my character is gullible as all get out. Hooray. For the Horde.
From blueside, I get to spend a lot of time suffering nobly. Like, Blizzard LOVES to write wringing hands about the Horde’s dastardly villainy, but is chronically adverse to letting the Alliance swing back in a meaningful way. Or even do much beyond be victimized until suddenly it’s time for the faction war to be over where we team up against whoever provoked it. And then all is forgiven and wasn’t that a lark?
Now, part of the problem is that Blizzard only seems to write from the Horde perspective for faction war and only from the Alliance perspective for neutral threats. This is some hyperbole, but less than I’d like. Blueside’s questing absolutely felt like an afterthought for Cata’s faction stuff, a fair bit of MOP, and BFA’s story. Redside gets to sit on their hands whenever we go cosmic, maybe with one or two characters tagging along for a line or two where we forget about all the rabies from the last expac.
Whatever, that’s just my impressions.
At least there haven’t been any more robot cats.
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Just because the perfect distillation is from a few expansions back doesn’t mean that the elements being distilled in it have disappeared from the game.
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What other sneering has the Horde gotten? I don’t think anyone has ever quoted anything else.
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I would say we got to “swing back” the problem is it was done in the damn books! For example, we know canonically the Alliance won the battle for Stromgarde and demolished A’rgarok. Or for example, the night elves have taken over Moga’shan Ramparts. But we wouldnt know that based ingame. We only find that out from reading “a Good War/Exploring EK”.
The annoyances of playing a Horde main go beyond the sneering. But there’s NPC hostility still happening even if it’s not forced on us in questlines. Less in Dragonflight, but that’s a welcome relief IMO.
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What NPC hostility? Still no one has given any examples of this.
For a recent example right off the top of my head, Genn Greymane told me I should be punished at the end of SL.
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No he didn’t. He said that the Horde shouldn’t have followed Sylvanas’ commands. Which even the Horde players say the Horde shouldn’t have and are upset that Blizzard forced that upon them.
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I don’t know that players know what a successful neutral story looks like for Horde. Because I think that any collaboration with Alliance frames it as a not-Horde story. I guarantee that Midnight will see this issue, even as Blood elves lead the charge and are pivotal to the void vs light story, there will be complaints that void elves are involved at all, that Alliance are involved at all. This makes it a not-Horde story.
This has created a Bechdel test of sorts, where a Horde story can only be a Horde story if it involves a very specific, restrictive set of categories that must be met or else it is unsatisfactory.
I will say that there hasn’t been a lot of effort on Blizzard’s part to make this the case. As Alliance races do tend to take center stage in cosmic stories for a lot of different reasons. I do think there should be more effort to make Horde a bigger part of this. The question is, will the Horde playerbase be okay with it? Being neutral means having to interact with Alliance and that seems to be a sore spot for a lot of the playerbase that complain about the “Disneyfication” of WoW and how a lack of a faction war has made the game milquetoast.
During Legion, the Suramar Campaign was a good example of a neutral campaign where we work with the Alliance - yet the Horde does not lose itself.
In fact, the differences between the Factions are played up. Their goals are different - Tyrande wants to end the Nightwell, and let Elune’s wisdom decide the fate of the Nightborn. Liadrin expressed compassion and understanding, and from what we know of the Blood Elves, it rang true.
Both Factions worked together, and did not lose themselves in each other. They played up their differences. Even played little pranks on each other’s camps.
An example I will make is Argus - we could have had a whole Horde themed subplot involving Orcs, and celebrating Broxigar - Saurfang would have made sense on Argus, since his brother died there. Visiting the home base of the Legion after what happened to their people and MU Draenor could have had Orcish/Horde stories and quests thrown in.
Instead, the only Horde involvement is Aethas getting his muffin stolen.
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It’s not possible for the writers. Canonically, the Alliance is far superior in every regard. The Horde shouldn’t exist in its current form. Jaina almost single-handedly flooded Orgrimmar in a book alone.
The Darkshore quest at least has a victory cutscene, which is hidden and cannot be shown under very special circumstances, so only the least amount of players can see it.
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Yes, he did. Genn has special additional dialogue for the Horde PC only if you talk to him after his scripted conversation with Lor’themar. In which he tells you that he thinks you, personally, deserve punishment.
Has there ever even been one? Does Thrall in Cataclysm count as a successful neutral story?
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- I refuse to believe that your fallen Warchief feels even the slightest remorse for her crimes.
When will she answer for what she did to my people? To my son?
<Greymane glowers.>
You have much to answer for as well.
I did indeed not remember this. It is obviously strongly emotional on Genn’s part. Though a Horde player would have to take the time to click on Genn to see if he had dialogue, which I’m not sure what a lore fan would otherwise expect if they did so after Genn’s talk with Lor’themar.
I had a feeling you would say this. But can you think of any comparable situation experienced by Alliance players? Where you click on a Horde NPC and they tell you you’re an awful person/elf/being? (Genuine question, because I haven’t played Alliance enough to know.)
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Gazlowe during BfA. When I’m Exalted with his town.
Same as Vereesa for Horde players who get exalted rep with the Kirin Tor in WotLK, then.
Does Gazlowe actually say anything to you, or does he just stand there being orange?
Not only does he have dialogue, he attacks the Alliance during Island Expeditions.
Vereesa is technically under the Silver Covenant rep, not the Kirin Tor. Horde don’t have access to it, and rather can gain rep with the Sunreavers.