The truth about "Orc Fatigue" "night elf fatigue" "Human Fatigue"

Lore Story Forum
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I meant their culture not literal inhabitants (but many of them born after sundering). Sorry for the understatement. But it’s still a completely different nation. They aren’t focused on arcane, now they fixated on nature. If elf from that time saw what the night elves had become, he would run away to the Silvermoon elves. We even have a case and proof of this in the form of Nightborne. This shows how much the night elves have changed over time and how little they have in common with Azshara’s empire.

Yes, the High Elves have changed their appearance, but their way of thinking? They were expelled precisely because they didn’t want to give up the ideals of the old empire, so they left Kalimdor and made their own smaller empire

It doesn’t make sense. For you Nazjatar is a city of drudic/elune-focused night elves, but not blood elves who, like the old empire, love using arcane so much. So they decide to leave the safe Hyjal because of it?

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Shandris Feathermoon: I knew many of these people. They were my friends… my loved ones… all of them are gone…

Weeping Sanya: Janius! Where are you?!
Weeping Sanya: Janius, no! I couldn’t… save you…
Shandris Feathermoon: Janius? My closest childhood friend… we were playing together when the Legion attacked our village…

Have you seen Janius Feathermoon?
Feathermoon? Oh yeah!

Nice merchant. He never told on me when he saw me stealing from someone’s cart. Said he was from a small town like Ara… Ara-something.

He said he was going to try and see the Queen. Didn’t you hear? Queen Azshara is right down the street! Maybe I’ll get to see her if I get away from these nasty guards.

Merchant Renrotta: Where is Janius? What have you done with him?!
Merchant Renrotta: He is just a boy. Please, take Janius away from this madness before it is too late.

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Ok, so honest question time.

Is English your first language or no?

I’m asking this because it is very clear when I’m talking about the historic connection of the night elves to not only Zin-Azshara, but also Azshara herself, that you are somehow not understanding what those words mean at all. Hell, most of what I’ve said has seemed to slip past you, and I know it’s not on my end because other people have seemed to understand what I’m saying.

So for clarity; is this a language barrier issue, or is something else at work here?

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Again, shared history, dating back 10,000+ years.

I did literally say that in my post. Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

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Nobody is making that claim except you!!!

Look, I’ve tried being patient, but at this point I’m just freaking tired of this. If you cannot address what people have actually said, then don’t address it. Fine, no big deal, we can move on.

But do not try and completely dishonestly misrepresent what we are saying.

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This you?

I mean really, you made that argument twice. Claiming that Naz’jatar counts as Night Elf content because of their history. We’re having this debate because YOU made that claim. No one brought up Naz’jatar until you did. You made it clear that you view Naz’jatar as Night Elf content because of their shared history.

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It’s Shandris’ personal childhood history. It’s not shared, it’s direct. You can’t act like they have a vague tangential connection that doesn’t really count when they’re wandering the streets reminiscing about them.

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And Shandris is over 10,000 years old. It’s her history.

Again, I already stated shared history is something that connects the Naga and the Night Elves. I do not know why you are harping on about it.

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It is, and you arte clearly not freaking capable of reading that first sentence you quoted.

13th post in the thread.

15th.

25th.

Try again Car. And there were a whole hell of a lot more I could quote, but you’ll just pretend these don’t matter anyway, so why bother.

Gaslighting isn’t going to work for you today.

Because of the night elves’ history. Here, let me re-quote it for you. Try to read it this time.

Where the hell did I mention naga? I bolded every reference to a race to help you out.

So again, where is that mentioning it’s importance is because of the shared history with the naga?

It’s important to night elf history because it’s important to night elf history. So freaking important in fact that just about every night elf with any kind of speaking role in the game has mentioned the War of the Ancients. Has mentioned Azshara. Has mentioned their role in it. And that war was fought at Zin-Azshara. Yes, before you think you have a gotcha, it was fought elsewhere too. But the night elf army was fighting to stop what was going on in Zin-Azshara, and Azshara’s forces were fighting to keep them out. Because Zin-Azshara was pretty damn important to the War of the Ancients, which is a pivotal, defining moment in night elf history.

And that’s before naga were even a damn thing yet.

But hell. Maybe you just don’t think the War of the Ancients, the Sundering, Queen Azshara, or the centerpooint for where all of that fell apart is actually relevant to the night elves.

Because naga.

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You guys poorly define terms and what you consider as content “belonging” to a group, and then go about in circles arguing for different things because you haven’t defined it in the first place. (And is highly subjective and contextual, which you adjust depending on which side you’re arguing for).

It’s the same repeat in every thread and oh boy,

Insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

And you must be truly insane to be a regular poster on the SF, no offense.

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And with that, we’re done.

I’m not playing this game with you. Bye.

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My definition for “X-race content” is pretty simple. The content must either:

  1. Be of great cultural signifigance, or
  2. Be of great historical signifigance.
  • Ardenweald? Not night elf content. Tyrande’s nigth warrior stuff might be night elf related, but I wouldn’t quantify it as night elf content, because Tyrande isn’t the whole of night elves.
  • Aszuna? Night elf content. Historical signifigance. But I accept there’s room for debate here.
  • Suramar? Night elf content. Historical signifigance. No room for debate.

Suramar gets people hung up because they want to point out it’s nightborne content, but just because something is important to one group doesn’t mean it can’t also be important to another. Real Draenor is important to both draenie and orcs. They both get content there focusing on their history and/or culture. It’s okay to be both.

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Naz’jatar is not a modern night elf content.

If we consider this, we must also consider all elven contents, such as blood elves, children of the night, and chaos elves.

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Alright, but you must remember that everyone else accept that definition, and the definition be contextual and specific.

The Shandris quest? Night Elf related.
Zin-Aszhari as a whole? The entire questing experience, aside from that one quest chain, did not draw back much to the night elven civilisation.

None of the naga have any references to the time of the night elves. The ambience has nothing to do with it, with insignificant throwaway doodads and mobs. The ghost place and the Shandris questing does (which includes the Warbringer). Azshara herself is there yes, but in opposition to the Alliance and Horde, as an agent of the void, and as a naga leader. She brings up a single line in reference to her past and the night elves.

So the question is, how much of the content must qualify to call the zone night elf content? Or could you rather be more specific and talk about the quest chain of Shandris and Shandris’ involvement in the raid?

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Sure.

But are we seriously going to sit and pretend that the War of the Ancients isn’t important? That Azshara’s seat of power since before it sunk below isn’t an important part of night elf history? That the people most affected by the return of Zin-Azshara are the night elves?

Freely include Nightborne under that umbrella, of course.

I suppose this is where it’s going to heavily depend which faction you’re invested in.

Horde-side? I see night elf buildings, I see a night elf lore character, I see a zone full of tiny reminders of night elf society? It’s all night elf. Because I have no ties to this, but I see ties to them. I see a character I have to this point only associated with them, because her entire history has only been tied to them. Sure, she’s threatening me now.

But Garrosh didn’t stop being fully tied to the Horde just because we had a revolution. Sylvanas didn’t stop being more closely tied to the Horde than anything else just because she Zo’d some Vaal. The southern Barrens didn’t stop feeling like Horde Country that some Alliance were invading. Kael’thas didn’t stop being a traitor to the blood elves, just because he wanted to kill everyone including us.

Just because she’s a void-mutated squidlady doesn’t make her suddenly not tied deeply to the kaldorie. It doesn’t make her less important to them. Tyrande knows it. Malfurion knows it. Maiev knows it. Shandris, Jador, Illidan, they all know it. The shape of their world right now is because of a chain of events their former queen, that void-mutated squidlady, started.

And Naz’jatar is where she started that chain of events. When Illidan met her? Tyrande? Etc? It was there. Hell, this is the city Tyrande was abducted and where Dath’remar freed her when the rebels marched on that very city for the final confrontation.

Yeah, that all feels very night elf when you’re a member of the Horde. Because all I see is night elf history around me, some alien thing I just don’t belong in and with nothing familiar to tie to anything but the night elves. Like Val’sharah. Like Suramar. Like Amirdrassil and the Emerald Dream. Like Hyjal. Like Darkshore.

But… I really just don’t know. Maybe when you run through there on Alliance, you just don’t see any of that, and the place feels relatively unimportant to you, with no historical ties to anyone from the Alliance beyond a single questline.

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But Blizzard doesn’t know it. Large complaints at the time of Nazjatar’s release was the introductory focus on Jaina while Malfurion and Tyrande don’t make any mention of Azshara while they were busy at Darkshore.

Was Nazjatar covered in ruins of Night Elf architecture? Certainly. Was Shandris’ quest significant Night Elf storytelling? It was just rehashing of what we’ve already always known rather than anything new. The most important new Night Elf lore we actually got was of the Drowned, the Highborne that refused to become Naga and Azshara cursed to be unable to pass on the same way she did to Farondis’ court. But even that was just a tiny questline and some dailies.

The main content done in Nazjatar was hanging out with gill people, and then palling around with Lor’themar and Genn as they threw compliments at each other hidden behind insults until we joined Jaina again in the raid. While yes, done within a lot of Night Elf designed buildings, but by that point Shandris had vanished and there were no living Night Elves to be found.

And like no living Night Elves to be found, none of this was touched upon or mentioned in the Nazjatar zone while we were playing through it.

All these, though? Yes, entirely Night Elf content. More Night Elves around than one should bother counting.

Suramar more turned out to be purple Blood Elves than Night Elves. Their architecture looks weirdly alien if compared to Night Elf architecture, like pod-creature style imitations that fall into the uncanny valley of not looking right. Elune was never mentioned - her temple specifically abandoned to the Legion outside of the bubble. Their society based on mana plutocracy and addiction.

There were quests outside of Suramar City itself that did have Night Elf content, most definitely. The Val’sharah refugees, Valewalker Farodin, the Moon Guard, a few quests from Kalec for an artifact appearance unlock. But all of that was resolved before Tyrande showed up.

Once the Night Elves did show up along with the High Elves and Blood Elves? Their biggest contribution was to get stuck on a time lock and then stand around while players finished the raid.

Wasn’t Horde side Darkshore all about setting up various Forsaken buildings? And killing Night Elves and Night Elf ghosts. Though I suppose the Horde did end up having to listen to Sira’s barking a lot once she was made undead.

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Just popping in for one quick reply, because I just can’t not reply to Amadis.

See, I knew I should’ve picked Teldrassil, but I didn’t want people to instantly think of the Burning. Or I should have been more specific.

I was more talking the zone as it existed overall, Vanilla to present. It’s a foreign place, it feels very not for me (Horde), and even when we try and make it a place with our stuff on it, it all still feels very night elf / alien-to-Horde.

The rest? Again, coming from a Horde perspective. I never saw Suramar as tall, dark and blood elf until they joined. It just felt… Still night elf. Because all we’re gonna see are the night elf-esque people we’re helping in a white-ish purple-ish city that do happen to have a mana addiction, but are still talking about things from ten thousand years ago. Combine that with the rest of the zone? It’s just going to feel all night elf.

Like I tried to say in the post you’re quoting, it might just come down to the faction you’re playing. The nuanced differences between nightborne and night elf, at least when Legion was active, probably felt more important and impactful when you’re coming from an Alliance perspective, where night elf stuff if pretty common so the differences stand out, then from a Horde perspective who just did two night elf zones, and now is helping tall purple elves with long ears, mentioning a city from night elven history.

Alright, said my peace, I’m out.

EDIT because I cannot stop: Regarding Naz’jatar, I completely get the complaints regarding how un-well it was done, how having Jaina be the token tagalong wizard when you could pick someone relevant like Mordent Evershade, and how while Blizz acknowledged this is night elf history in one breath, they quickly moved on from that acknowledgement with fishmen.

I’m not saying it’s good or well done. It’s BfA. Beyond the leveling zones, not much was good at all. But yeah, it still feels night elfy when you’re a Horde main and don’t know how the Alliance player experience is going, or which tagalong night elves are with them. I’m just seeing night elf buildings, having my Scuffed Night Elf brand new friend talk about night elf stuff, and wondering how long it’ll take to unlock pathfinder.

But I get that it’s going to be a different feel for Alliance mains, who have more exposure to night elf content.

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Here is the thing. I believe the reason why the writers and a portion of the playerbase (especially Alliance players) like to pretend something like Nazjatar or Aszuna/Legion Suramar isn’t Nelf content is because ancient Kaldorei stuff is largely intertwined with the foundational big lore and can be found all across Azeroth, which in the mind of some people translates into it being thematically neutral and universal, by virtue of being so widespread and central to the setting (remember, the story of modern Azeroth is the story of Azshara and the War of the Ancients first and foremost). Ancient Kaldorei content being basically the norm, for something to truly be Nelf content in their mind, it has to be explicitly and specificly tied to modern-day Nelves, to the modern Darnassian society.

But no, obviously Nazjatar, Aszuna and pre-BFA Suramar are Nelf-adjacent. Try to replace them with, say, Zandalar. They’re as much inherently Nelf content as the Zandalari empire is inherently Troll content. After all, the situation here is quite similar : Zandalari and regular Trolls are biologically, culturally, architecturally, politically, narratively distinct, and both Zandalar & Azsuna/Suramar/Nazjatar are remnants of an ancient superpower that let you take a peek at what the respective Troll and Kaldorei empires were like at their highest.

…However, only Zandalar may lead to Troll fatigue. Why is that ? Because Trolls are not thematically neutral. Troll stuff cannot be viewed as a “universal cornerstone of the wider setting” or as “intertwined with the foundational lore of Azeroth”. Nelf stuff can.

That’s where the disconnect come from, I believe. That’s why I and so many other Horde players in that thread have been appreciating and reacting to the Legion & onward content differently than Alliance & Nelf players. That’s why we have Nelf fatigue and you don’t.

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And yeah, basically this.

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I think I’m not used to this perspective due to years of Treng insisting Ashenvale should belong to the Horde. From that perspective I don’t imagine Darkshore is all that different and so wouldn’t be foreign as Horde content. Would it be fair to say you saw the Horde leveling in Vanilla and Cataclysm through Ashenvale as foreign as well?

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