The Feltotem drank demon blood too though.
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But have they?
There was that whole garrosh thing and now sylvanas.
Is the only difference now is that now they are doing everything they used to do fully aware of what they are doing.
At least the Forsaken have an excuse for how they started. The orcs have none and continue to reinforce that fact.
May be I am just struggling to see how they are redeemed. Is fighting alongside Alliance and doing their duty to protect their world all they need to redeem themselves?
Wrathgate is probably the only instance I could think of the Horde as the good guys until that incident. But otherwise I am coming up blank.
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The majority of the orcish race stood against Garrosh.
Factually untrue.
You are.
The orcs fight to defend hearth and home. All it took was Genn choosing personal vengeance over the wellfare of the planet to get essentially the entire Horde on board for attacking the Alliance – but not not even Nathanos was okay with burning the tree when she commanded it.
Dont bother replying to me. I am not getting into another debate with you.
I know how those turn out. Try someone else.
I will reply to and correct every lie you tell that I read. I don’t care if you don’t respond; it just makes clearing the air all the easier.
Not all the Orcs though went through? We see these Orcs in Outland?
Also all those other races received outside help. The Night Elves only won the first war due to an Orc and Human.
The Draenei again got outside help from the Naaru and needed other forces to defeat the Legion.
I don’t even know what you mean by Humans and necromancers. If you’re talking about Wrath, it was a joint effort by every race on Azeroth?
What help did the Orcs get?
Velen tried to help the orcs when he realized what was going on but they never accepted his help.
By humans and necromancers I mean WC3 both Garithos and Jaina are examples that not everyone fell but fought. The orcs on the otherhand were either indifferent or actively joining in the slaughter.
Not all clans were allowed to go through the portal and that varied for different reasons. Anyway its pretty clear no orcs abandonned the Horde to join Velen or anyone else to start a resistence.
The Night Elves and Draenei were already in open rebellion and trying to stop the Legion and their sympathizers. Their success just meant they were victorious rather than it happened in the first place.
What orcish clan tried and died to stop the Horde? I can’t recall of one.
Night Elves and Draenei on the other hand paid a heavy price for it. The orcs took the easy way out. Thats the difference.
Except the Mag’har,…
Not to mention, the orcs did overcome the Legion. They were influenced no more after Wc3, at least the majority (Factions such as the Burning Blade continued their demon consorting).
They are a people, one that has just as much potential for violence as any other. Yet they are often driven to it for one reason or another.
In the cataclysm, they were starving, in MoP Garrosh went back to a mindset that should have never been dug back up, and in more recent times, they are being pulled to war because of the plans of Sylvanas.
Think about it for a second: Garrosh grew up around the time of the formation of the Horde and the First and Second wars. After this, he was told that all that Grom had done was relieved because he sacrificed himself for his people. He learned the wrong lesson. This was fairly evident even in Cata.
Garrosh in a way still represented the old Horde, that those events would shape the orcish people for generations after. What Garrosh did was not representative of the orcs as a whole, this is shown in the orcs involved in Vol’jin’s revolution.
As for Sylvanas, it’s fairly clear that other than leading the Horde, she doesn’t represent the orcish people. She’s not an orc herself, and her mentality for war is very different than if it was someone like Garrosh. She more represents something similar in the Forsaken that Garrosh did for the orcs, but not for the orcs themselves, no.
Yes, fighting the Burning Legion and taking part in saving the world was indeed supposed to be part of their redemption. More so, though, fighting alongside other peoples who would otherwise die alone. Other peoples who would be entirely isolated from the world, and protecting them, lending their hands in defending these allies. Because that’s what the Horde represents, that’s why the orcs are the centralized culture of the Horde instead of someone else more powerful or influential.
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Garithos died by the undead. Jaina ran away and joined forces with the Orcs?
You’re frankly moving the goal post here.
Also the Orcs got severely tricked, be it that they were dumb, but it doesn’t change the fact they were tricked. The other races literately got offered power straight from the Legion it self by joining. The Orcs never saw that offer. They thought their ancestors were telling them that the Draenei were evil and plotting to betray them. The circumstances are vastly different here.
Also once Orcs knew they were being tricked they quickly revolted against those that followed the Legion?
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Garithos fought the undead rather than join them.
Jaina did run away and had to be convinced to fight with thrall to defend the war.
She never ran to intentionally join them.
Besides my point remains the same as ever.
Night Elves were tricked.
Humans were tricked.
Eredar were tricked.
everybody was tricked.
The only difference is everyone fought off the legion or ran away when they could not.
The Orcs actively participated or stayed neutral at best while everything was going on. The Maghar never sheltered the draenei or helped them anyway. They just never followed the Horde into the dark portal. I am unsure if this was because Guldan forbade it.
Anyway even after the Shadow Council was defeated the Orcish Horde continued their invasion and slaughter to wipe out all the original inhabitants to make a new world of themselves. How does this redeem them?
Grom drank demon blood and he did it again.
I feel like people keep giving the orcs more and more chances unjustly.
Like at what point enough is enough and we got to call it how it is?
Just because the Horde fights against evil for their OWN benefit it somehow absolves them? Gee thanks for not joining whatever evil we are fighting this expansion?
How were the Night Elves and Eredar tricked? Sargares himself asked them to join?
Also Garithos did ally with the Undead?
seduction of power and wealth. Guldan and his cronies are no different than the Eredar or Highborne that decided to fall for those schemes.
Not with the scourge. He gave the forsaken a chance but was betrayed anyway.
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Uhh lets see After the Eredar and Hightborne joined up the Legion they asked the other “half” to join as well. When did Guldan and his “cronies” ask the remaining tribes to join the Legion?
The scourge and Forsaken are still undead? Again moving the goal post here. Also if we want to be technical the scourge was not controlled by the Legion, the Lich King kept his free will and was fooling the Legion the entire time.
Um the orcs are and have always been presented as a dynamic race. when we got to outland we see the Mag’thar reconnect with the horde of azeroth and how these orcs have survived on a hellscape world. the orcs confront the mistakes of the past and strive to be an honorable warrior society. when we see orcs burning down kul’tiran settlements I honestly don’t blame them. Jaina’s daddy dearest launched a campaign of extermination on the orcs after they just helped save the world and kul’tirans have continually attacked durotar and other orc outposts even when the alliance wasn’t at war with the horde how many of the orcs died to kul’tirans? can you even blame them for having a take no prisoner mentality? The orcs are split between two cultural dynamics that of an honorable warrior society and that of a society that the world would happily exterminate if given the chance. you really can’t blame them for showing no mercy when even the most liberal of alliance leaders would see them enslaved as manual labor/ gladiators. the orcs are in the same place they’ve always been fighting for their right to survive and as a warrior race you can bet that any act taken against them that may jeopardize that will be handled quite violently.
No I am not. Dude come on. Sylvanas presented herself as someone that was freed. The enemy is legion and the scourge. They were the enemy and Garithos believed Sylvanas and tried his best to defeat the Scourge.
As for Guldan he came with a cup of boiling green goo that flied in the face of all things natural. Orcs had chance there. They had a chance each time a warrior chose to drink or not to drink.
Highborne like Fardonis or those in Suramar prove not everyone joined Xavius.
The orcs also fought off the Legion. You know who didn’t?
Satyrs.
Blood curse.
Saurfang drank the demonblood and never drank it again.
Again drink this so you can kill the people who are plotting to betray you and kill you vs join me and end all life through out the cosmos.
You keep trying to make these equivalent they are not. The Night Elves and Eredar who joined the Legion knew everything that was going on. They told the other half everything they were going to do. The Orcs did not receive this information. Once the Orcs knew they turned on the Legion.
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Obey queen Azshara and do not fight the demons. They have come to liberate us of the evil in this world!
“Um… how about no?”
Stop giving the orcs a pass. If Durotan or Orgrim were so concerned they would have done something about it. But they didnt.
Azshara was basically the Night Elf god at that time. If she said the sky is green well gorsh darn it its green but they still disobeyed her.
Considering where they were yeah. I also wouldn’t put Sylvanas on them. They haven’t really been much more involved than the Tauren. Remember there were Tauren fighting for the Horde in the war of Thorns.
I never said they were perfect or had become some kind of paragons but what they are now as opposed to when they were proxies for the Legion is pretty drastically different.
Maybe not redeem but certainly contribute to it. Do remember most of the Alliances acts of noble heroism are pretty much doing the same thing.
I might be missing some context here but I think it is worth pointing out that the NEs that fought against Azshara generally didn’t get that choice. It is hard to say how many might have chosen to turn a blind eye if given the chance. The old NE empire didn’t care much about non NEs and the NE population practically worshiped Azshara. Hell many of Malfurion and Ravencrests soldiers had the idea that it was all Xavius and that they needed to rescue Azshara cause in their eyes, there was no way the Light of Lights could be to blame.
Malfurion would have likely had a much smaller army if Azshara had offered her people a chance to side with the demons. They didn’t disobey her. She didn’t give them the chance to.
Again. They knew who the Legion was and what the Legion was about. As soon as the Orcs knew who the Legion was, they rebelled and defeated those connected to the legion just as all the other races did as you claim.