That’s their own personal problem.
it’s ok buddy, you may never ‘get it’ and that’s ok
but most players do
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pvp can give you things that will be off the game soon…so…yeah it’s p2w.
That token didn’t just appear out of nowhere. Someone paid $20 for it. There was a real money transaction, the currency just didn’t come from your friend.
Paying for something not guaranteed to get the item you want? Where have i heard that model before? Oh ya…loot boxes 
You’re so close to understanding, you got this. People CAN do the content. They’re buying them because they are lazy. Too lazy to gear, too lazy to learn the class, and too lazy to find a guild. Blizzard absolutely did not make the content so hard no one can do it. Boosts exist because of players.
My point was to illiustrate how the same thing can exist in games, but not always be a case of P2W. But also that P2W isn’t just a matter of purely any tiny advantage/time gained over someone. Which you largely seem to have entirely missed. Perhaps you should be the one brushing on reading comprehension.
Ahhhh, pot meet kettle. Perhaps if you weren’t such a condescending jerk to people you’d get a better reaction from others.
People being bad at the game and thus buying boosts from others…still isn’t P2W though??? What exactly are you trying to argue here? WoW is P2W because people can’t do easy content and instead will buy it? Whether a player is good or not has no bearing on something being P2W. You said buying any progress. But the progress can be made by the player. The player chooses not to. This isn’t because Blizz made it unobtainable.
Oooof, my guy. Good job on 99s in content that is 14 years old. I also am very sad that this is something I need to point out to you but…in guild/pug situations they also don’t just base how good you are on parses. Nor did I say or imply that was the only factor. I’m fairly certain I said it is valued more than gear/achievement which isn’t incorrect. Sorry, I had incorrectly assumed you were intelligent enough to consider that.
Except…it is vastly different. You saying it isn’t doesn’t change that. Lol Boosting is made by the players, and driven by the players. This is a fact. Also it…already isn’t allowed? Last I check advertising them isn’t allowed. Selling them for RMT isn’t allowed.
Except it’s not? Not be able to remove it doesn’t mean it’s encouraged. Boosting has been around before the token. It will be around if the token is removed tomorrow.
OH BURN! 
C’mon dude. You can do better with the insults. I give them a solid…1/10. Pity point honestly.
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Not necessarily. Pay to win in a lot of ways just means paying real money to skip having to put in the same time and effort as others. In WoW “win” means clearing the raid or getting gladiator. Token gets you both. No company provides the service of “pay $10 for 1% more damage over your competition”, but they do provide real money options of putting you on par with people who have vastly surpassed you in effort, time spent and skill. Which you haven’t earned and instead achieved with real money.
pay2win is missleading in a game where there is no winning. it should be referred to as Pay4Power
Yeah you’re wrong here mate.
Token = gold
Gold buys cary
Cary = increased ilvl
Increased ilvl = more output
Does it mean that person is going to get insta glad or clear m15 easily each week?
No, but it will definitely increase their odds.
The point is he has enough gold in game to do all that without needing a token.
The token is nothing more than convenience. Everything a token can buy can be purchased without a token.
If they make revenue by not cracking down on carries, and they sell the tokens that are used to buy the carries, they are implicitly involved in the transactions.
They get mad when someone cuts them out of the revenue. See gallywix for proof.
Because they earn revenue, and players are willing to pay others to advance them, blizzard is actually incentivized to make said content relatively difficult. This expansions raids are MUCH tighter between difficulty levels this time around. Wonder WHY…
RMT isn’t allowed because it cuts blizzard out of the revenue stream, but they can advertise on trade all they like for gold carries.
It’s been so, and changing wont stop it ,does not mean the game wouldn’t be better for the players if blizzard wasn’t taking it’s cut. The game was 100% better before the token, and bobby kotick makes too much money for things to change for the better. No, no, pandoras box is open, and it’s only going to get worse from here on out.
Sure, and it will cost you more and more time as time goes on to encourage base play to encourage token sales. Corporations have a duty to do what is in the shareholders best interests, and that happens to be milking you dry.
Actually they do and that IS what is actually pay to win.
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It occurs to me that players selling carries may not have always been a thing. When I started in TBC it was mostly a matter of just talking to people and asking nicely. Given I never did a heroic raid loot funnel but I don’t recall ever even seeing it offered and I never paid a copper for any of the runs I did get. I only say that because the idea of not paying for a run in classic is pretty laughable. Times have changed.
Lol you act like $20 every couple weeks is some huge cost.
That’s a half hour pay for me.
I saw them all the time. They would kill level ones in org/sw in the website name.
Grats on barely being middle class, depending on marriage status and # of kids?
Is this a boast, or a cry for help?
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I do remember the bodies I guess I just assumed they were gold sellers now that has always been around.
That’s just base rate and not including ot or commission.
We live comfortably so it’s neither.
Name one game for me, just one, where the MAXIMUM a player can achieve in game in terms of flat damage can be surpassed by giving the company money. To exceed the theoretical in game maximum by buying something, thus making you more powerful than anyone else possibly could without buying a service, doesn’t exist.
We aren’t talking about buying armor, spells, access to harder content to get better gear, etc. We are talking about 2 people in an arena, both have the best gear possible, but one guy paid for 10% more damage. It doesn’t exist.
What WoW has is absolutely P2W in the spirit of it, and you trying to relegate p2w to only that extreme example is dishonest.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that violated consumer laws in some countries.
You can pay $20 per person to do an escape room with your friends.
But let’s imagine you had the option to pay $60 per person, and then you get a piece of paper with step by step instructions on how to solve the room.
“Pay to win”. But you missed the entire point of the activity, didn’t have fun, and anyone who knows better or bothers to do 3 seconds of legwork will know your amazing time isn’t truly indicative of your escape room ability.
I cant agree that PvE in this game is P2W. At least PvP is a zero sum game, for every gladiator rank is one who failed to reach it.
Okay, but this is such a watered down definition that what does it matter? Who cares? How does it negatively impact the game?