Oh neat, the losers who quit responding to me when they couldn’t make a point are back. Now I don’t need to pick on the mage.
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So I guess we can all agree WoW is pay to win and move onto the next pay 2 win thread.
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See? He just keeps going.
It’s pretty funny - but at least he keeps bumping the thread for the OP I suppose.
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My reading is fine actually.
You care enough to insult people 
I haven’t gotten defensive about anything. I’m just laughing at how mad you are to actually comb through my achievements when all I said was bad players will still be bad if the token was removed.
I think it’s hilarious how much of a hypocrite he is.
Literally started insulting me once he couldn’t refute my points.
Trolls doing what they do best. His transparency is uncanny.
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Apparently not. You literally linked something that undermined your own argument.
I insult people as a hobby. I don’t need to care to do it. I do it because it’s fun.
You keep presuming I’m mad, but I’m not. I’m just talking crap to you to make gathering on FFXIV more interesting. Almost done with my relic.
I was insulting you before that to be honest. I’ve been making fun of you since you tried linking some urbandictionary definition that pointed to precisely what we were saying, not you. Then tried to dance around and inject words to the definition that didn’t exist.
In fact you still never responded to me pointing out that pay-to-win’s literal first definition was with UO where people were buying items from players from MarkeeDragon with real money. Items you could get yourself in game, but using money and not having to earn them. 
Not at all. Purchasing a WoW token gives you gold not restricted items or even items in general.
Boosts are a terrible argument because anyone can buy them and they aren’t offered by Blizzard so
Your life outside of the screen must be really awful then.
Ironic considering ff is more pay to win then WoW is 
I wasn’t even the one that linked the Urban dictionary version
You mean something that wasn’t Blizzard? Has zero bearing on the purpose of the thread.
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That’s cool because your definition provided never once implied restricted. It stated only that players could purchase things in the game with real money. Gold counts as this.
In fact, we have a precedent for this. Diablo 3’s RMAH which was deemed pay-to-win and led to a number of governments having issues with it once they got over the whole “hey, you sold a product that requires players to connect to play, but your servers are crap and they can’t connect and you’re not allowing refunds to them for a game they can’t play because of you.”
Either way, RMAH didn’t allow you to buy anything not attainable in game, one had to get it to put it on there anyway. Didn’t change the fact it was still widely deemed pay-to-win because you could just fork over a ton of money for god tier items from other players and curbstomp most of the game.
You buy the gold used for a boost from Blizzard. Boosting in any game is pathetic frankly, but the fact Blizzard encourages this and it enables people to buy gear with extra steps that they really aren’t good enough to earn normally is pathetic.
Success in an MMO is measured by your ability to do the content. That goes out the window when you can buy content completion. Especially when Blizzard tries to make these things a form of prestige while they are relevant. You can buy prestige, which is why anybody does damn near anything in an MMO at a serious level, the clout associated with having those things. Being able to buy that is antithetical to the entire basis of the genre whether you want to believe it or not. This isn’t a “my reality vs yours” sort of thing, this is just objective fact.
Not really. I have a really well paying job, a four year degree in Economics that is why I make the money at the job I do. I excel in every game I bother to invest time into to the point I’m usually the one selling carries and not being carried. I’d say my life is pretty good.
How do you figure? It’s cosmetics. I can’t buy gil from the store, or anything I can sell for gil. I get banned if I try to use my gil to buy carries in the game. They’re pretty set on the “YOU MUST EARN THESE THINGS” aspect of the game and that’s good. They know achievement is a cornerstone of MMOs and that being able to buy carries severely undermines that.
Few years back they banned a lot of people who bought Ultimate clears which are meant to be impressive and publicly posted the names of the banned players on the website to completely destroy their credibility, a few streamers got hit in that. What does WoW do? Oh right, encourages this behavior.
Nah you linked the “cyber definitions” which was what it was.
https://www.cyberdefinitions.com/definitions/P2W.html
PTW is used in gaming with the meaning “Pay to Win” to refer to games that allow players to purchase items or abilities (e.g., more powerful weapons, additional health points) that give them an advantage in the game, either over other players or NPCS.
Which again, far more in line with what we were saying than what you were.
WoW doesn’t have a different definition of pay-to-win. It’s a pretty agreed upon term when it comes to gaming because it’s not specific to any one game. I am really feeling bad for you if you can’t grasp this basic fact. As I said before that you conveniently chose to ignore. Black Desert Online is considered one of the worst pay-to-win games on the market and that’s because you buy items that make upgrading your gear a lot less risky and can also buy costumes now to sell for money on the AH which gets you a lot in that game.
Sure a free player could eventually get there, but what a colossal whale does with 2000 dollars in a week outclasses what a free player is going to do in 3 years.
Hahahahahahaha. Oh man, have you even played BDO for any significant time period? I’m amazed at how entirely wrong one person can be. It’s impressive at this point.
Literally everything on the cash shop gives boosts in game. Outfits give stat buffs, along with exp boosts, durability reductions, and more vision (important in a pvp game). Pets do so much more than auto loot. Some add more weight, more exp boosts, and some increased gathering. Should we talk about the valuepack? Which severely limits a player who doesn’t have it. Less inventory, storage, exp, weight, and it used to effect how much you could even do in the day (I think that\s been removed after backlash). Or what about the tent? The items boosting drop rates? Heck the items boosting exp because later levels take MONTHS for a single one. Or! The camouflage costume which hides your name in pvp. This isn’t stuff you can just get in game. You can get 4 pets from the quest line. Which certainly won’t net you a tier 4 pet (roughly $500 from the cash shop). Don’t even get me started on the process to + your gear.
But yeah…WoW is P2W because people use gold to buy boosts. 
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Black Desert Online is considered one of the worst pay-to-win games on the market
Your reading comprehension, or lack thereof leaves a lot to be desired. Though funny you want to nitpick what we both actually agree upon because I chose to not go into specifics on EVERYTHING that can be deemed pay-to-win with the game and just chose to state it’s considered one of the worst pay-to-win games on the market.
Especially since you’re so late to this discussion or so behind their main argument has been “Well you can get these things by playing normally it just takes time” so it stands to reason throwing “this set gives an xp boost” (something I also listed in an earlier post in this thread) would be met with “YEAH BUT THEY CAN STILL GET THAT XP IF THEY JUST GRINDED MORE! THAT’S A CONVENIENCE!” from this particular person.
As for you, you can buy the costumes and stuff now with silver you earn in the game from other players on the auction/market. I figure someone like you who wants to imply they’ve played BDO a long time would know this by now but apparently not.
Gold you can buy from the store. Buying progress in any game is still pay-to-win by most accepted definitions today except people who want to bend that so they can say “me buying a boost isn’t pay to win because you can also earn that gear!” as a means to protect their fragile ego because they understand the connotations of pay-to-win undermine everything they have paid for in the game and make them realize they don’t deserve it.
Was my exact quote. Please do yourself a favor and learn to read.
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You can buy a level boost in WoW right now from Blizzard. And that still isn’t P2W. And it isn’t suddenly P2W because BDO sells exp boosts. I’ll give you a hint why…one of these things take significant time to do. Maybe even…months. And the other takes…sub a week.
You are correct! Ding ding ding, finally something you’re right about. I’ve never been so proud. 
Now, as someone who played BDO a long time, I also know two things you seem to not. 1) The are rarely if ever listed. Honestly I used to camp the AH trying to buy a costume for silver. But because of point 2) which is that they’re sold at a capped price, which honestly is so dirt cheap it’s nuts, they sell quicker than a FF14 housing plot. But also…not really worth buying and selling on the AH because of how low they sell at (capped pricing remember).
Sure progress you can’t meaningfully gain in-game. Which is entirely incorrect when it comes to WoW. Sorry, but you can absolutely progress in content by playing. You can do this in a reasonable timeframe. There is no metric for winning because guess what. No one (except you because you prefer an insult) cares when you got the achievement. You may not like parses, but basically any guild/pug group will 10000% put more value into how you parse than when you got the achievement or your gear.
Also buying a boost from PLAYERS. We’d be having a fully different conversation if WoW sold a boost directly. People like gloss over this little tidbit. That yes, buying it directly from WoW is different than buying gold, and a boost from a player. And it’s because boosting is a player created, and player driven thing. I don’t care if someone “thinks” Blizz made a need for them (???). People think the Earth is flat. And that $190/hr is a decent wage.
My dear, I responded to your whole quote. You were still wrong in it. But it’s okay.
This alone is what pay to win in, anything else stated afterwards is just tacking things on to make it fit your argument.
You can buy gold with real life currency and then use it to gain advantages, no matter in what shape or form. A +15 carry, a Heroic clear, etcetc, that you might, personally, not have been able to do yourself, but swiping that credit card gave you the advantage of getting it done without working for it.
It’s a grey area imo. I don’t mind people buying tokens to do these type of actions but I can see how others do.
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Actually it specifically states in game items or health points.
Gold is neither of those options.
Being deemed pay to win by people doesn’t actually make it pay to win.
Bad players a lame everything for being bad.
yeah. just like buying gold from a gold farmer website is the exact same as somebody just trading it to you for free
You don’t gain an advantage over players that are doing the carrying to it doesn’t count as an advantage.
Yeah you totally aren’t getting the point that buying a level boost in WoW nobody cares about because it doesn’t give you an advantage or enable you to do something you otherwise wouldn’t be able to do. That’s an issue with laziness. The problem with buying carries for gold however is that the people who are buying the carries are generally buying them because they can’t do that sort of content.
Nobody argued level boosts in WoW were pay to win even when they were first announced and had a “only one” limit on them going into WoD during MoP, they just said it was scummy and didn’t trust it to ever stay at “one per account.” Which well, it didn’t.
For someone who is a complete moron you sure like to patronize needlessly. Acting like you’re the smart one here doesn’t make you the smart one, just saying. Let me know when you actually say something worthy of that pedestal you seem to think you’re on because you haven’t said a single intelligent thing thus far.
Fair point, I quit that trash game the second they started allowing that because I don’t deal with pay-to-win elements being encouraged by the game developers so I have no idea what the silver ratios are like, I just know you can buy it and sell it to basically legally RMT. Which yeah, being able to buy currency from the company is still a big no for me.
If you want something you should have to actually earn it. Even if tokens were just one gold I’d have issue with them existing.
Yet again with that very pathetic reading comprehension. I am speaking specifically with regards to people buying carries to do things they are not capable of doing themselves. Contrary to what you and I both might think about how good people can be if they’d apply, there’s a lot of people who no matter what barring carries will never see Heroic cleared because they actually are that bad. I became far more aware of it when people kept trying to argue parses being the real winning and seeing these are people with green parse at best medians that kind of scream they’re carried by the raid team.
Okay, you’re actually this dumb. Yikes, I was suspecting it but now it’s kind of confirmed. Where to begin. . . I never once said I disliked parses. I simply stated they are not a good measure of a player’s success in an MMO because they hinge heavily on external factors beyond the player’s control at a certain point. I had 99s on every fight in Classic and in most of the t4 bosses in TBC before quitting. It’s not that I don’t like parsing so much as I hate idiots who don’t know how to read them. I have this same opinion of damage meters, they’re valuable tools but 90% of the people using them have no idea how to actually use them and think it’s a contest which is why I believe the only people who should ever use a damage meter in a raid is a raid leader or class officer.
No, because you basically can do this already just with that extra step. Being able to buy a boost at all in ANY capacity, I don’t care if it’s gold, money, or trading a ton of raid consumables for it. It should not be allowed. Simple as that. Can your feeble mind comprehend that?
One encouraged by Blizzard solely because they can make money by allowing it with all the gamer dads and scrub tier players who will buy carries to have nice things they can’t earn in game and it prevents them from needing to actually make other means of gearing otherwise they’d be crying about how unfair it is they don’t have nice things too.
Yeah, people are dumb. I’m responding to one right now.
Man if only you were half as smart as you think you were then I wouldn’t feel like I’m having a conversation with a chimpanzee.
i see what OP’s doing. we’re doing the “drop something so obviously false that it’s funny” thing.
I’m Santa Claus
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Guess what. . . this might blow your mind but gold is an in game item. Unless you want to argue “WELL GOLD ISN’T ACTUALLY AN ITEM IN YOUR BAGS” and well, given your sad logic you probably would try to argue this, but bottom line. You are buying something in the game, a commodity of any variety for real life money. Yes or no. . . When you buy the token for 20 dollars are you not specifically buying an ITEM from Blizzard generated into your bags (or are they mailed? Never bought one.) to post on the auction house with the SOLE use of it being to be posted on the AH and bought by another player for their gold.
Just as you trying to avoid literally every point made and say “IT’S NOT PAY TO WIN” makes it not pay to win, right? You are able to buy a commodity in the game with real money that you can then use to buy other commodities or services from players. Using gold that you did not actually earn, but instead indirectly bought from Blizzard.
This constitutes as being able to buy an advantage in the actual game. You seem really hung up on this whole “WELL IT’S NOT AN ADVANTAGE DIRECTLY” but it is, because having a ton of gold in this game is an advantage whether you want to believe it or not. Have you ever had over 5 million gold in this game? It’s a completely different game. You are able to purchase an advantage that you didn’t otherwise have. This is not relative to other players, it’s relative to the player.
Being able to literally buy every BoE with BiS corruptions the second they showed up on the AH for 8.3 was a huge advantage. To players who don’t have a lot of wealth, that is a significant advantage. I didn’t buy my gold, or tokens for it. I earned mine but even then I would without a second thought immediately state my ability to buy heroic BoE boots that had rank 3 twilight devastation on them for m+ carrying over my friends who seldom had more than 500k to their name was a significant advantage.
Wealth in a game is one of the biggest advantages you can possibly ever have because of how universally useful it actually is. Being able to buy gold, which in turn means buying wealth in order to procure that advantage. . . hmm that sounds a lot to me like being able to directly buy an advantage in the game with real money.
Not always, you seem to have owned up to being trash quite well but you might be an outlier. Still trash though.
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You do realize that people can buy a WoW token with gold right? I have a guild mate that literally uses tokens to transfer toons so he can buy things cheap on other servers in mass and transfer back to sell them with zero real money transactions.
There are ways to make gold if you actually put effort into it and even none that extreme.