So what is the context of the argument? People can respec via trainers and gold cost, is this a request to remove a gold sink?
My main issue with dual spec is that it removes a much needed gold sink from the game.
I love meaningless polls almost as much as I love the idea of dual spec in TBC.
Couchy
Thank you for providing at least ONE argument. It’s valid and I get you. Also if you say “it wasn’t on the original tbc” I can agree with you. But you saying that dual spec will kill tbc then you are blind or you don’t even like the dual spec from the start.
Classic wow isn’t bad for the gold MOSTLY, is bad due to the batching removal right when vanilla is about to END, is bad due to the bots and literally zero effort on putting them down, is bad because of the min/maxing culture and world buffs (this last one FIXED, again, right when the end is around the corner)
Again, if you don’t like dual spec don’t provide an “argument” stating that it will kill the xpac because it won’t.
The upfront 1000g cost on Dual Spec would be a greater gold sink than the recurring 50g cost from respeccing. I don’t even bother ever respeccing now because I don’t want to have it become an expensive habit. Does it appear that respeccing is working as a gold sink in Classic?
That’s great, level 12 retail Paladin.
Alright, I’ll bite. Yes, this specific poll fits into the category of selection bias.
Can you provide an example of how that’s going to effect an ambiguous topic like dual spec? You cannot assume that simply because a person is viewing a streamer that they are in agreement with all of that streamers opinions.
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If people really want dual spec in the game then cool. We should probably look at lowering the amount of gold that a player earns while playing though. TBC rewards are designed around having that gold sink in the game. If you totally remove it but don’t nerf the gold they have coming in, I think that it will negatively effect the game.
There are a lot of good, solid reasons to argue for dual spec, but this isn’t one of them. Very, very few people choose to not tank/heal because they don’t have dual specs. It’s not nearly a large enough incentive.
Couchy
You might want to study some basic logical fallacies along with a stats class or two.
Couchy
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You are level 12 therefore your opinion is not valid, duh!!! There is no way someone of your level could even make a coherent thought!
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It’s going to skew the data, I can’t obviously know by how much without the ability to look at what a properly sampled dataset looks like.
It would be a fallacy to claim everyone who follows the creator shares the same opinions, and it would be a fallacy to claim that the creator has no effect on his followers, either. You’re also a lot less likely to see participation among followers that disagree, simply opting out of the poll instead of voting in the negative, but again it’s difficult to know the full effect of the bias without a properly constructed sample to compare to.
In a nutshell? The data is distorted and useless because it’s not a proper sample and not representative of the greater whole. It could be a small distortion, it could be a large distortion, we really can’t know without proper sampling and repeating the experiment.
It could be true, but it could also not be true, and because of poor sampling all we have is hurling our bias at each other with no real proof.
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A quick gander at the post history of that level 12 retail Paladin tells me all I need to know to safely discard their opinions.
And your argument that a poll with bias metrics shows consensus is how I know to discard your opinion.
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Alrighty I will agree with you on a lot of these points. Where I disagree is the end here
Given the polls in the OP which are in favor 80-20 and 65-35 I would argue that the margin for error would have to be unbelievably large to state that there is no proof.
I’d like to point out that those polls are wrong in many cases. Believe there was a report that showed that the presidential polls being conducted are slanted in favor of the Democrat party since the people they tend to ask are Democrat. This is why numbers for FL (as an example) were way off from what actually happened.
That being said, polls can give you an idea of what people want as long as they are done properly. Many times they are not and should never be treated as factual. The polls shown in this thread or based off that streamers viewers which people tend to watch streamers with like minded thoughts/playstyles. Only way to know for certain is if Blizz themselves did a poll which still wouldn’t be completely accurate, but it would be more accurate than those shown here.
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Ever since the inception of these forums, the posts here have traditionally skewed to the side of #NoChanges. Despite that, the poll that was posted here still returned 64.5% in favor of Dual Spec.
Any poll outside of this forum will return a result similar to the first screenshot I posted.
At least mine’s not filled with logical fallacies and innumeracy.
Couchy
I just want to say as a tank that tanked through all content of TBC Dual Spec would have made my life so much easier instead of me having to blow 1000’s of gold just to raid then more gold to respec just to farm gold on my off day. I’m for it just on the bases of repairing 3-4 sets of tanking gear on top of DPS and/or pvp gear was a huge money sink that didn’t affect other roles nearly as much. So saving that little bit of gold each week or every few days would be a nice QOL change.
Not really. It’s not the same population, even remotely. It doesn’t even have a don’t care option in the poll.
The best conclusion we can make is of the people who follow this content creator and saw the poll, x% are in favor/against.
That’s not the same as “The TBC Classic Community”. Not by a long shot. We have no idea if the followers of this content creator are even remotely representative of that population.
I won’t go into an argument about whether they should or should not add dual spec, because I’m well aware of your opinion and I don’t really care to argue it with you. My point in this topic was simply this data is not sampled properly and claiming it represents “the TBC Classic Community” is flat-out wrong.
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Here are the top two threads on the Classic WoW subreddit about Dual Spec. The upvotes are 79% and 82% respectively:
As I said:
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