It could very well be because he writes them through the veneer of the old noir stuff, but there’s at times an almost sleazy description of things through the eyes of the character that don’t really line up with how he’s portrayed in other times. I can’t get into too much without spoilers, but there’s some stuff later on that I find a little bit questionable, things that aren’t as present in his other series at all.
Again, could just be the noire influence, which would make sense.
Should clarify that he’s still one of my favorite authors and I recommend his works to pretty much anyone with an interest in sci-fi or fantasy or anything in between.
I wish you guys would’ve been this upset about Garrosh back in the day, though to be fair that Sylvanas got far more material and stories that gave insight into her mind.
Garrosh got done dirty too. Part of the reason I’m so bothered by it is because they rehashed the same story that sucked the first time around and then made it worse.
I’d have been upset about Garrosh, but too many people even BEFORE the wrathgate wanted to kill Sylvanas because they were too stupid to think of something to kill besides zombies.
I’d have never taken his story in the direction that it went, though.
A lot of people were more okay, or at least grudgingly willing to accept the Garrosh instance because it was only the first time the Horde had an evil Warchief/rebellion arc, I think. The Sylvanas garbage writing threw everything we gained from that in the trash(Vol’jin, his legacy, the lessons we supposedly learned in SoO, ect), for nothing, absolutely nothing.
I was always upset about what they did to Garrosh, but I was more willing to accept it as a misstep because Garrosh aside, most of MoP still had a pretty enjoyable story. If only I had known what horrors were to come…
Well Idk what kind of Sylvanas fans you stumbled into to be so fed up.
Maybe she represents … let me say, a character philosohy very different to your own. And that’s why you want her gone from your Horde?
I’ve known her story since the RTS games, and I’ve never considered her good an sweet, even in life she was as High elves usually were: conceited, so sure of themselves and ruthless, but also loyal and dedicated to her people and struck me as sort of a perfectionist. I liked that.
After she became a banshee, She was portrayed as a Cold, damned soul, but with some remote feelings for her old people (Elves) and bound and responsible for her new ones.
This new Sylvanas became very nihilist and enraged teen, all out of the blue.
I’m not saying its not possible, but How they do this is what makes me angry, it’s ridiculous and basically done at her expense to show off other characters like Anduin and Saurfang.
What clearly showed this to me was Saurfang’s last Cinematic, he kept mentioning her fails. Which, for starters was a very low punch considering her only true failing (from her own PoV) is Quelthalas, 2nd of those failings one was at his treacherous hand.
This is bad writing, not a bad Sylvanas per se. They are failing to convince me a fan, she’s gone truly evil.
You do not write Sylvanas well, in spite of how Blizzard chooses to now. They do not want your self-insert fanfiction where Sylvanas is your best friend who listens to you at length about how you crap the bed nightly.
“A lot has happened to her,” yeah, having your brain replaced like three times in rapid succession will leave a pretty lasting impact on you, I imagine.
(The brains being writers, just in case you don’t follow…)
I just see sylvanas fans want that the rest of the story and characters just stay dumb to prop up their favorite character. I too sometimes wish tyrande was a massive mary sue that everyone bowed down and listened. Oh and lets not forget that plot corset armor.
He’s not the only one. Off the top of my head, there are at least four writers that I know have written Sylvanas: Alex Afrasiabi, Dave Kosak, Sarah Pine, and Christie Golden (definitely in novels, writing for game so far unknown). And I suppose Chris Metzen probably wrote her original WCIII appearances?
I’m sure there are more who have written for her at one time or another over the years.
I think the sudden downfall of Sylvanas in this expo is only to make her an even bigger hero (antihero?) in the next expansion. With a character of her caliber, Blizzard is probably going to try to outdo their send-off of Illidan with her send-off.
The next expansion is supposedly a death/un-death shadowlands expansion.
I think the Death entity or something in that realm has the ability to manipulate the fates of the living so well that not even the bronze dragon flight can detect it. This creature is responsible for things like Vol’jin’s death, Garrosh’s downfall, Arthas’s downfall and many more.
People might think this reason is a cop out for Blizzards bad writing. But I think its just they have a huge story and we’re fed information so slowly that we jump to other conclusions of whats going on.
This is where I part ways with most Sylvanas apologists. Droité is completely right that this heel turn has not only been foreshadowed for ages; it also falls entirely within her character as it has been presented since WC3. She is not a heroic Daenerys catching plot insanity; she’s a Cersei who has been pulling this crap since book one.
The problem is that this story is inherently unsatisfying regardless of what characterization Sylvanas was given because of larger issues, and no amount of “character work” was going to make this outcome ok to people who like the concept of Sylvanas’ Horde.
Specifically:
The devs got players to deeply invest in Sylvanas despite her flaws by making her the soul and culture of one of the most interesting PC races in the game. If you like the Forsaken, them you’re invested in Sylvanas.
The devs laid a ton of narrative hooks they could have used to redeem her—not to mention all the short stories and music and in-game time and that giant flipping statue POS. None of this has much to do with her characterization, but it is a significant way the devs communicated to players that this character was important, and it’s ok and encouraged to invest in her. A payoff was promised.
Of course players are pissed off that they wasted all that emotional investment in the character for a cheap twist that isn’t paid off with anything more satisfying than BfA. And you know, I kind of think that’s partly by design. Being PISSED OFF is engagement, and from certain points of view, engagement is money.
So was this ending predictable? Yeah. It’s also a waste of players’ emotional investment and time.
Furthermore,
The payoff is bad. It’s one thing to say Sylvanas has always been motivated by selfishness; it’s another thing to say that the best way to explore that selfishness is to tell a story where her plans are completely obscure (which means it can’t seem smart since it comes out of the plot’s butt), to the extent that the Horde looks ridiculous for following her, only for her to go Night on Bald Mountain for no emotionally satisfying Reason. Again, logically coherent and in character != satisfying.
The Horde is more homogenous now. Even if it makes sense for Sylvanas to leave, she’s still leaving behind a Horde that no longer has much of a place for edgy players, and that sucks if you like that aesthetic, regardless of whether the turn makes sense.
I really think you have the right of it when it comes to Sylvanas, and your analysis of her character is insightful. But I also don’t…care I guess? I don’t think you deserve any of the hate you get. But It doesn’t really matter who’s right about how a mud sandwich got muddy; the salient fact is that the food is inedible.
Golden wasn’t hired until the Warbringer short was done, so well after the end of the War of Thorns was finalized. It’d be Afrasiabi and Danuser to the best of my knowledge.
