The Stigmatization of MWs (Mostly PVP)

Introduction

Before beginning, I suppose I really ought to introduce myself a little. I’m a long-time PVP Healer, having started out PVP healing way back in Cata. I played through part of MOP, skipped WOD, and returned during Legion. I mained a gDruid in Legion and BFA, but I always had a Healer alt on hand - typically a Priest; I also dabbled in rDruid. Unlike many of the people on these forums, I just started playing MW fairly recently. By, “Fairly recently” I mean to say since patch 8.3. Admittedly, I avoided the Monk class like it was the plague all these years; however, when Blizzard introduced the XP boost near the end of patch 8.3, I decided to give the Monk class a shot. A buddy of mine rolled a WW, and I rolled a MW. Long story short, I fell in love with MW. My MW became my main, and - to this day - my MW still is.

What did I love about MW? First and foremost, I loved the mobility. After all those years of playing a slow-moving Priest, MW felt so nice. Relying on mobility, and avoiding as much damage as possible, just felt natural to me - more natural than having to literally face-tank things on a cloth-wearing Priest by cycling CDs. Secondly, I loved their powerful ST healing - even if it made them go OOM relatively quickly. I mean, it kinda made sense that they go OOM relatively quickly if you spammed a ton of powerful ST healing. It was a trade-off: spammable powerful ST healing, but it comes with a hefty mana cost. I didn’t mind the trade-off bc it was fair. It was nice to have powerful ST healing for once, and to actually be able to keep a target alive when pumping heals into it.

I jumped into Arenas as an undergeared MW near the end of 8.3 when the ladder was full of ppl rocking 9x gushing corruptions, etc., and - despite this - easily climbed to 1800. When I say, “Easily” I mean to say it wasn’t even remotely challenging. It didn’t start getting more difficult until around 1750. Seeing as it was the end of the expansion, and pre-patch was just on the horizon, I decided that 1800 was a good place to stop for the time being - even if I probably could have pushed further. I never really did a lot of Arenas before, and so, this was my first 1800. I just wanted to enjoy it for the moment. I told myself, “I can push 2000+ in SL.” I begin to think that was a mistake.

SL: The Downward Spiral

When pre-patch dropped, our first round of nerfs came in IIRC: Fort Brew and Cocoon were gutted. We also lost corruptions - but that didn’t affect me much, seeing as my MW was undergeared anyways. During pre-patch, MWs still felt relatively fine; however, I think the reason they still felt relatively fine, despite the nerfs, was because we still had essences and whatnot boosting our lack-luster survivability. We still had access to oodles of versa, oodles of mastery, etc. It looked so good in fact that I recall a PVP buddy of mine saying, “Maybe 3x MWs will be meta in RBGs.

When SL dropped, all hell broke loose: MWs were effectively nerfed again when they lost access to essences and whatnot, and lost access to all of their versa and mastery. Now, our lack of survivability became painfully obvious, where before - during pre-patch - we hardly felt it. Fort Brew does practically nothing to stop incoming damage - on a longer CD, and Cocoon has become little more than a DPS speed-bump - on a longer CD. Besides this, our mana/heal ratio is out of whack: our powerful ST healing is not nearly so powerful anymore - and, yet, costs remain high. During the “Great unpruning” we got a bunch of questionable additions like ToD and EH - both of which rarely get used, or significantly alter our play. ToD - another melee range ability, is dangerous to use as a MW, and has an awkward delay tied to it; also, it may or may not kill your target. We could rename it, “Maybe Touch of Death.” EH is just not very useful; typically, it’s used as a self-heal, a sort of budget healing elixir, when we’re running away from DPS. It’s pretty disappointing as an addition to our toolkit. Kinda sad when Druids are getting things like Cyclone baseline, more CC baseline - and we’re getting like ToD and EH. Our mobility no longer makes up for our lack of defensive CDs, seeing as nearly every class now has ways to control mobility and/or close the gap. Invoke Yu’lon was buggy in PVP since BETA. We had Statue bug out for a week or so. Basically, SL has been a complete disaster for MWs. MWs were nerfed, perhaps inadvertently, like 3x over going into SL.

And what has this led to? It has led to the stigmatization of MWs: nobody wants a MW for Arenas, for RBGs, for Mythic+, and even for raids. More and more MW mains are disappearing as ppl are forced to reroll, or just outright quit the game bc, well, you just aren’t allowed to participate in any end-game content as a MW. Honestly? It hurts. It hurts that the devs would let something like this happen, and it hurts that the community would promote this kind of toxicity. I mean, really, what’s the excuse for disbarring MWs from low CR YOLO RBGs? What’s the excuse for disbarring MWs from low Mythic+ keys? What’s the excuse for disbarring MWs who link high XP? What’s the excuse for essentially robbing someone else of their fun? It’d be nice if people stopped and remembered that they weren’t just refusing a MW - a bunch of numbers and pixels in a video game, but a fellow human being. Let’s be real here: most of the ppl in the community aren’t pushing hard content; these aren’t R1 RBG groups, these aren’t R1 Mythic+ teams, etc. These random nobodies, who clearly think they’re somebodies, are refusing a spec due to stigmatization, looking for that piddly little “Edge.” The sad reality is that if you manage to botch a low Mythic+ key, or fail in your low CR YOLO RBGs, it most likely isn’t bc you brought a MW.

Arenas, Specifically

Arenas are a whole other matter. MWs are definitely struggling in Arenas - that can’t really be denied; as such, it isn’t surprising to see the Arenas community effectively avoiding MWs like the plague. Why are they struggling in Arenas? Well, simply put, all of their issues tend to become more exacerbated in a 2v2 and 3v3 scenario - esp. during a high burst meta, like we have here in season 1 of SL. Their lack of survivability becomes sorely apparent, their poor mana/heal ratio becomes sorely apparent, the pointlessness of a lot of their abilities becomes sorely apparent, etc. Playing w a MW rn is like playing Arenas on hard-mode. Playing w a MW rn is making your rating push - which is necessary for PVP gearing, I might add - just that much more difficult. To play with a MW rn in Arenas requires both players to play exceptionally well; it is not enough for the MW to play well alone, bc good MWs really aren’t in a position to carry anyone atm. MWs can’t really make up for poor playing on the part of their partners, like some of the other Healers can atm. For instance, an hPally and their partners can afford to derp around and misplay a whole lot more than a MW and their partners. For example, to stop an hPally from instantly topping their team mate, I have to pull off a perfectly timed CC chain. If I slip up, and give them even 1 sec. - 1 moment to cast, it’s all for nothing; I’ve used multiple CCs, and got nothing out of the exchange. MWs don’t have that luxury. We can’t top anyone with a single cast of anything; infact, we’re the only Healer whose “Instant cast” spells (outside of ReM) can’t be cast while moving, and can be effectively kicked, due to the fact that we have to channel SooM to use those “Instant cast” spells.

The stigmatization of MWs in Arenas has also become self-perpetuating: everybody knows “MWs are bad in Arenas”, so nobody plays w them; the only people willing to play w MWs in Arenas rn have little to no CR, and/or little to no XP - some are even complete beginners. What happens? Well, the team doesn’t get anywhere. The DPS check around, see that ppl are saying, “MWs are bad in Arenas” and they never think twice. They nod their heads, and pat their backs, and think: “That makes sense, bc - obviously - I did everything I could.” Or as ppl on the forums like to claim, “I played perfectly.” The team disbands, and the MW is left sitting in LFG to get picked up by the next no/low CR, no/low XP DPS - and the cycle continues. This just leads to further stigmatization of MWs. The DPS get in with a stronger Healer, like an hPally, find they can derp around more, and have their biases confirmed. The thing is, playing w a MW means that everyone has to play better on the team to make it work - and it can work. There are a couple of MWs on the board. The problem is that most ppl are just lazy. I mean, let’s call a spade a spade here. They’d rather not work harder, and/or they’d rather point the finger at someone/something else, as opposed to improving as a player.

Carrying on, Rerolling, or Quitting

As such, MWs are left w a hard decision to make: what are we to do in the mean-time? What are we to do when we’re getting disbarred from nearly all the end-game content in the game? What are we to do when we are getting disbarred from Arenas, RBGs, Mythic+, and raids? We have 3 options:

  1. Carry on
  2. Reroll
  3. Quit

In the first case, we have carrying on. Unfortunately, most ppl will not choose this option; after all, we play a video game to have fun - and it’s not fun being effectively disbarred from nearly all the end-game content in the game. This explains why we are seeing less and less MWs. MWs were never super popular before - but, now, they’re practically extinct. I’ve played over 300 Arenas this season and I’ve seen <10 MWs in all that time.

In the second case, we have rerolling. The simplest “Reroll” for a MW is to go WW; in fact, I’m confident that this partly explains why there are so many WWs in PVP rn. A good chunk of those WWs are MW “Rerolls.” For some players, that’s a viable, albeit temporary, solution to the MW problem; for other players, it’s not an option at all. For example, I, personally, prefer playing Healers over playing DPS; as such, swapping to WW isn’t very appealing. Other MWs are dropping the class altogether, and are rerolling dPriests, hPally’s, and/or rShamans. For some ppl, rerolling to another class is easy; for others, it’s a bit harder. For example, as an RP-PVPer, I have a lot invested into my “Character.” My “Character” isn’t just a bunch of numbers that are more or less favorable in PVP. My “Character” is very much a part of me. Dropping my “Character”, dropping a piece of me, because MWs are struggling numerically, just doesn’t jive w me.

In the third case, we have quitting. Sadly, more and more MW mains are just outright quitting the game. I mean, nobody likes being practically forced to reroll, or be disbarred from everything. I am considering this option as well, seeing as I have no interest in rerolling, and I am actively being disbarred from everything just bc I happen to play a MW. I can’t progress anymore. The game is effectively over for me, thanks to the stigmatization of MWs, and thanks to the fact that the devs haven’t addressed any of our issues before this stigma grew and took hold of the community. The game isn’t fun for me. It’s disappointing. It’s upsetting. As for the people saying, “Blizzard doesn’t care” - well, they should care. Whales still have to be subbed to be whales. I spend money in their shops - but I’m not gunna spend a thin dime on anything they offer if I’ve gotta put up with this kind of stigmatization. There’s a reason I never buy their 6-month promos. I never fall for it. Ever. It’s problems like this, where a whole class/spec, or even multiple classes/specs, just get completely ignored and utterly dumpstered for way too long. They need to fix MWs - like yesterday. Their negligence is gunna cost them in the long-run. They’re losing more than just a couple of subs. They’re losing whales. I mean, I’ve no need to buy WoW tokens if I don’t play, right? Why would I waste money on store mounts, etc., for a game I don’t play - or rather more precisely, I don’t get to play? If the game isn’t fun, people leave and take their money elsewhere. Facts are facts.

Going Forward

I don’t want to have to quit the game - I really don’t; however, if this state of affairs continues for much longer, if this toxic stigma continues, then I probably will. It’s not fun being disbarred from everything bc you happen to play x class/spec. It’s like the very antithesis of fun. I’d really like to see the devs make some changes to MWs pronto to address this problem. As many ppl had been saying throughout these forums, “MWs have had issues since BETA.” It’s time these issues were addressed, at least to some degree or another. Now, I’m a fair person. I fully understand that we can’t expect a sweeping overhaul anytime soon - nor do I expect that; however, I do expect some minor hotfixes ASAP. I, personally, don’t think it’d take very much to hotfix MWs. A few suggestions are as follows:

  1. Revert Fort Brew - at the very least, it needs to be stronger (higher %s HP and DR), and on a shorter CD
  2. Revert Cocoon - again, at the very least, it needs to be stronger (greater absorb), and on a shorter CD
  3. Cut our mana costs a smidge (10%?) - esp. on our bread-and-butter heals
  4. Either a.) significantly increase the DPS of our melee attacks and/or b.) bake in some passive group healing from the DPS of our melee attacks - we really need a reason to even bother using our melee attacks, esp. when it’s so incredibly dangerous for MWs to bother getting into melee range. Give us a reason to want to roll in to kick and punch! Please! Damage, some baked in passive group healing - or both, idc. But I really want to have a reason to use my full toolkit.
  5. Possibly some sorta stat buff?
  6. Possibly allow SooM channel and our “Instant cast” spells while moving so we can actually be “The” mobile Healer - I mean, you’ve given every other class/spec control of mobility/gap closers… gotta give us something to counter that if we’re supposed to be “The” mobile Healer. If not, then make SooM channel unkickable bc it’s too easy to shut down all of our “Instant cast” healing - which hPallys and the like get for free, mind you - when we’ve gotta stand there, channelling a spell like a moron.

EDIT: 7. Bring back /cancelroll, or at least allow us to break roll somehow.
EDIT: 8. What about the possibility of allowing MWs to roll outta roots and snares, so our mobility is more of a defensive?

I’d like to think that this small list of minor hotfix-level changes wouldn’t be that hard to implement, nor would it be game-breaking in the least. It’s really just a matter of altering things we already have. I’m not looking for MWs to go from dumpster fire to god-tier. I’m just looking for them to go from dumspter fire to playable. I’m looking for MWs to go from being disbarred from all end-game content to being a welcome addition to the team. I wanna see ppl saying, “Sure - we’ll take a MW” as opposed to how it is now, w ppl literally posting, “NO MWs ALLOWED!” I wanna look at the PVP leaderboards and see more MWs than pPallys. I don’t wanna see other classes/specs get nerfed to make MWs seem more appealing. Buff MWs, leave the others alone. Make every class/spec strong and fun to play; it’s a video game, after all. It’s supposed to be fun. I wanna have fun again playing a spec that I just fell in love with. Please do something to address this.

Thanks for your time,

Sincerely,

Chän

P.S. - A heartfelt thanks to all of the ppl out there who have been supporting the MWs.

P.S.S. - Apologies if this isn’t the best piece of writing.

26 Likes

Well said. The lack of changes to mist weavers are infuriating. Would a simple 10% mana buff really throw the AWC out of whack? Not asking to redesign the class in the middle of the season but some slight buffs are in order and is the minimum you can do blizzard.

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When is the AWC finished? I mean, I’m fine w waiting for the AWC to be finished if we can at least get some kind of confirmation that MWs will be addressed afterwards - and I mean like the week afterwards, not the next patch afterwards :laughing:

The longer this goes on, the less MWs there’s gunna be. Ppl are getting shut out rn. Ppl like me are literally capped in terms of progress, bc ppl just don’t wanna play w MW - and they don’t wanna play w MW bc the devs wrecked the spec going into SL. It’s need some help ASAP, preferably before it goes the way of the Dodo.

March 7th.

Go watch the Kaleiki interviews. As the dev that was in change of Monks (hate saying this…), his comments in both are honestly pretty damning. Not only could most of the dev team not give a crap about the PVP ‘mini-game’, all the class designs are currently being run by only TWO PEOPLE.

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What - March 7th? Ok. Never mind then. They need to make changes way sooner. I’ll be damned if I’m gunna wait months for PVP changes that shoulda happened in BETA.

PVP balance is a complete clown-fest rn, and - IMO - wasn’t in fit state for a competitive season to begin. Season 1 SL is gunna have about as much weight in the PVP community as Season 4 BFA did.

As terrible as this all seems, I’m hoping that Blizzard wakes up and actually tries to do something to rescue this sinking ship before the competition comes in and lures us all away w a better PVP experience. I mean, it seems kinda short-sighted to drop the ball like that w a company of this magnitude, but maybe WoW is finally on its last legs.

Mismanagement can destroy a company faster than ppl think. I’ve been part of companies that fell apart bc of mismanagement. Blizzard is making all the classic mistakes that herald a companies demise. First sign is when a company strives for short-term profits over long-term profits; typically, practices that yield short-term profits - which look good on paper, and on graphs presented to shareholders - tend to yield long-term losses. For example: cutting staff. Seems like a good idea. Looks good on paper. You save money - in the short-term; however, in the long-term, it inevitably leads to losses. I mean, you need the staff to make the product that the company sells. Cutting the staff is the same as cutting your production; in effect, you’re killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

I mean, it’s all just common sense to me, but then I suppose that common sense isn’t quite so common!

They better get crackin’, bc their competition is hard at work.

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Will just comment here that when I was still playing the game, I could link recent 2700 achievements and a R1 title, and would have to beg to get into 1800 LFG groups. Even most of my friends would not play with me. So your experience resonates with me.

Re-rolled Hpal, was able to hit 2400, and I’m just worn out. MWs need substantial changes that go beyond just number tuning. One small recommendation:

  • Give MWs the Brewmaster tanking mechanic, “Stagger”

I think this would offer the spec a unique solution to being bursted in stuns.

9 Likes

Yeah I’m quitting. Played classic cos I hated BFA, was hoping to main mw again. Got 25% vers on my monk 197ilvl just from pvp, and I must say mistweaver has never been this bad. I mean, I’m not the best but I did get 2k in both 2s and 3s in legion. I’ve literally only played mistweaver since mop launch. The only class I care to play…

4 Likes

No ponit to carry on now. If people still play monk theres even less incentive for blizz to change it. If literally no one is playing it then either they remove or change it.

If you want an actually good raid healer who can also do pvp and m+ very well, reroll Shaman and if you want a good dps-healer go hpal (melee) or disc (ranged). That’s it.

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Same.
Cleared Naxx on launch night (top 15 US guild) & quit classic immediately for a chance to play MW again. Feels bad man, especially when I’d probably have full t3 by now :rofl:

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The biggest issue facing MWs rn, IMO, is the stigmatization of MWs. That toxic stigma, which is disbarring MWs from end-game content, isn’t gunna go anywhere until the devs buff MWs.

I mean, I got disbarred by the same group I played w the day before in RBGs. We absolutely crushed it w W after W, and climbed from like 0 CR to 1500+ in one sitting. They saw, first-hand, what I could do on my MW - but it still didn’t matter. The community had decided that “MWs are bad”, and so, the very next day they refused me on those grounds alone - despite my actual performance the day before. Though it is certainly true that MWs are struggling in PVP atm, IMO, this is more of an issue in Arenas than it is in RBGs - hence there are more high-rated MWs in RBGs than there are in Arenas atm. In Arenas, you’re the only Healer playing w 1-2 DPS. Typically RBG teams run 3-4 Healers, a Tank/DPS, and 5-6 DPS.

As per suggestions for changes: honestly, I’m trying my best to stick w suggesting easy and reasonable hotfix-level changes to current abilities, etc., bc we’re much more likely to see those w an over-worked 2-man staff, as opposed to the introduction of new talents, abilities, etc. I mean, yeah, bigger changes - like what you’re suggesting here - would be nice, but I don’t really think it’s necessary to effectively “Reinvent the wheel” just to bump MWs up a bit and make them at least playable, and more desirable as partners for in-game content. Plus, it’s pretty clear that the MW community is pretty divided about what sort of MW it’d like to see. I’d much rather the devs just introduced some small fixes, like the ones I’ve been suggesting, as opposed to making drastic changes that significantly alter the way MW plays now.

Im not disagreeing w you; I’m just saying we should probably try to look to suggest easily implemented changes to our current abilities, etc., as opposed to expecting additional talents, abilities, mechanics, etc. We gotta be more realistic about what 2 people can actually do.

It does feel bad. It really does. Worse still is when the community disbars you from end-game content. I’m sorry to see another MW go. I can certainly understand the sentiment. That said, I’m gunna do my best to stick it out and push really hard to become a better MW; after all, the silver lining in this period of difficulty is that it really pushes us to either give up or improve. Then, when we get buffed - as I’m sure we will - I’ll just be 10x the MW I was before.

I’m honestly trying my very best to balance my complaints w hopeful optimism, and reasonable suggestions for hotfix-level changes; I really don’t think the devs are bunch of cruel sadists who will let MWs remain in this dilapidated state for much longer. I’m fairly confident that, given the recent PVP changes, MW will be addressed shortly. Way too many ppl - esp. in the PVP community - are calling out for MW buffs for it be ignored much longer - and, in a way, it makes perfect sense: there are only a handful of Healers in the game. It’s very noticeable when a Healer just drops off the charts, like what has happened w MWs. MWs have always typically been good PVP Healers, so it’s incredibly telling when they suddenly just vanish, en masse, from the PVP scene. Something is clearly wrong and needs to be addressed.

This sounds fun. I’m not a high end PvP player. Usually getting 1800 now and I’m pretty happy but for PvE this would be great.

They need to really take some ideas from holy paladins and apply them to Mistweavers. Don’t copy paste necessarily but use it as a guide to making melee healers

That’s exactly right. A strength of soothing mist was that it allowed casts to be instant. That kind of perk loses merit when other healers just use instants to top without having to channel

3 Likes

Honestly, I’d just like to see them do something about our melee attacks. I’d like a reason to roll into melee range, risking my life - and I’d like to see that sort of change ASAP. Give us a reason to use our whole toolkit.

I get that they prob won’t want to bake passive group healing into our melee attacks, seeing as they already kinda did that with the ATotM leggo. IMO, it was a missed opportunity on their part. I can actually see how they could have made both mistweaving and fistweaving a thing, but instead we got a leggo w abilities that should have been made baseline.

Shrugs

As such, the best thing they could prob do - as a quick hotfix - is to significantly buff the dmg of our melee attacks. Honestly, I think our 3 melee attacks ought to be hitting on par w or just shy of their WW counterparts; otherwise, they’re just not gunna warrant being used in PVP most of the time. I know some ppl will cry, “That’s not fair” but it really is fair when you think about it. Rolling into melee range to engage is incredibly dangerous for a MW. It ought to at least be potentially rewarding to use our melee attacks.

The thing is, these spells of ours are not really “Instant cast” - hence the quotations. When we’re channeling SooM, a couple spells are castable at instant cast speed, perhaps, but - unlike real instant cast spells, like those that most other Healers have, these couple of spells are still kickable bc of the SooM channel requirement.

By comparison, an hPally - for example - rarely has to cast. They’re almost impossible to kick. Like I said, I have to land perfect CC chains against them to even have a sliver of a hope of stopping them from instantly topping their team mate(s), or stopping a go. It feels like the stars have to be aligned. It’s not much better playing against rShamans either, mind you. Meanwhile, I have to literally stand in place - like a motionless turret - channeling an entirely kickable spell, in order to cast my “Instant cast” heals. “The” mobile Healer? Really? I wish it were so, but there’s a reason MWs are called, “Healing turrets.” And turrets aren’t really know for their mobility last I checked :laughing:

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Bump because I spent almost 3 hours getting declined for RBGs today. Can I play the game?

edit: in 1500-1600 groups…

4 Likes

MWs are fine in RBGs. I see them more than Rdruids above 2k mmr. In fact, I think Rdruids are by far the worst RBG healer and I think MW’s are in the top 3 behind Hpals and Priests.

We’re 4th (in RBGs).
Yes, Rdruid has lower AOE burst throughput than MW, so they’re slightly behind in RBGS, but slightly better in Arena. For RBGs, disc is in a class of it’s own, HPal is good, but shines more in Arena. Same deal for Rsham… slightly better than MW in RBGs, but like Hpal, is very solid in 3s.

Top 1000 (top 500 from both EU/NA) player breakdown.
Disc - 162
Hpal - 64
Rsham - 23
MW - 15
RDruid - 11

2 Likes

This is sadly par for the corse with monks as a whole every single time…its specs are hollow shells of what was once great and fun but now are nothing worth touching. No point playing the class until blizz makes changes…i wanted to main MW back when they came out but went casual on it after they first ruined fistweaving…

Now its not even worth gearing…so damn depressing.

2 Likes

Are MWs “Fine” in RBGs? Sort of; I kinda agree and kinda disagree - I mean, it kinda depends on what we mean by the word, “Fine.” By “Fine” do we mean to say that they’re merely “Good enough?” Or by “Fine” do we mean to say that MWs are welcome addition to the team? Are groups actively looking for a MW Healer, or are they begrudgingly taking a MW Healer just to fill a slot so they can queue? The majority of MWs I’ve spoken to have experienced the very same thing I’ve been facing - the stigmatization of MWs: we’re effectively being excluded from most end-game content, including RBGs. I mean, we’re not even being taken into low CR/no CR no voice YOLOs. We’re being excluded from ~1500 CR RBGs.

I’d say that MWs are doing “OK” in RBGs by comparison w Arenas - and not bc we’re somehow better in RBGs, but bc in RBGs we have a team of DPS who can peel for us, and a team of Healers who can help keep us up and going when we’re being hard-focused. I mean, the issues plaguing the MW spec don’t suddenly disappear bc we play on a bigger team; rather, they just aren’t as much of an issue on a bigger team. This is kinda what I already said above when I had said that MW issues are exacerbated in a 2v2 and 3v3 scenario, where we’re the only Healer.

Just outta curiosity: how many MWs did you personally play w, on your team(s), on your way to 2k+ MMR in RBGs? I’m kinda betting this is one of those cases where people say, “X class/spec is fine (implicit: so long as it’s on someone else’s team).

On the matter of seeing more MWs than rDruids at 2k+ MMR: please look at those numbers. Yep. 4 more MWs. Last I checked, that’s not actually a lot.

MWs are “OK” in RBGs. They’re not perfect, and they’re certainly not top-tier, but they’ll do the trick in a pinch. The prob is that most ppl don’t want merely “Good enough.” Why would ppl bring a MW over an hPally, rShaman, or a dPriest? Why bring a Healer that’s merely “Good enough” when you can bring a top-tier Healer that does everything a MW can do, but better - w more utility, and personal survivability? Please. Explain. I’ll wait. Please tell me about all the times your team brought a MW when you were climbing to 2k+ MMR. Please tell me about all the times your team opted to bring a MW over an equally-geared hPally, rShaman, or a dPriest - like yourself.

Are MWs “Fine” in RBGs? Given your personal experience climbing, why don’t you tell me? I don’t wanna hear about how the “Other team” had a MW once or twice. That means jack - and you know it.

Facts are facts: MWs need buffed pronto.

1 Like

My #s were just from the top 1000 players.
There will be a larger % of MWs near that 2K bracket where he is.

Also, the RBG “issue” isn’t unique to MW. You can perform decently well, sure, but you’ll only really ever see MWs taken for that 3rd healer slot, putting somewhat of a cap on representation. That’s just the meta atm, which translates across brackets to low CR LFG. Everyone wants Disc & Hpal.

The current meta has you stacking 2 disc + (insert w/e). Generally for that 3rd (if even running 3) picking up an HPal is best. They just offer more utility atm, have BoP for the discs. I’d put Rsham, Rdruid & MW on somewhat equal footing.

I mean, Ultimate Radiance is just utter bonkers.
Instant cast heal, hits 5 ppl at range, crits for 13-14K (hits harder than 3 min CD, Revival), leaves behind atonement on everyone, and only has a 20 sec CD. Then you factor in the double PI, PS (castable while stunned), better damage & the duo magic schools for healing.

1 Like

Some of those priests might be playing holy

Those are all 100% disc.
I didn’t filter in Holy priests on my search, so any that were Holy, I didn’t count them. There may be a few of those in the top 1000, but they weren’t included in the numbers above.

Edit: Just looked em up. There are 10 Holy Priests in the top 1000 (EU/US).