The Stigmatization of MWs (Mostly PVP)

Classes Monk
22

I know. You mentioned that in your original post.

Likewise, there will be a larger % of pretty much every other Healer, rDruids included.

Right. So, what is “Meta?” What does it mean? How does a “Meta” work? What makes something “Meta?” I mean, it’s pretty obvious that “Meta” means, essentially, “That which is (over-)performing well (by comparison).”

I get that it isn’t just a MW prob - for instance, hPally is better than all the other Healers, and dPriest is pretty darn good in RBGs rn; however, MWs poor showing in this RBG “Meta” is def due to their issues. I mean, there’s a reason ppl aren’t taking MWs. It’s bc they need work. They don’t really bring anything to the table - and in most cases, they’re just an added liability; in fact, it’s kinda like playing on hard-mode bringing a MW over, say, a hPally or a dPriest. Yeah, they can perform - hence there are some MWs on the board; however, ppl aren’t really bring them, for the most part. That’s also clear by the board. If they were in a good spot, we’d see more of them; likewise, MWs wouldn’t be getting shut out of low CR/no CR YOLOs.

Honestly, I’m a bit confused: are you trying to argue that MWs are good in RBGs or not? I kinda think we’re likely on the same page, but arguing around each other :laughing:

Edit: I guess what I’m trying to get at here is that, despite the irrationality of the stigma affecting MWs ability to - at the very least - participate in low CR/no CR YOLOs, the stigma certainly does have a basis in reality - the reality being MWs issues.

23

Thank you thank you thank you! I am still maining MW and it is a struggle. We need more posts like these! I think the “mobility is your defensive” argument is moot these days with the amount of mobility they have given to all the other classes. I hope blizzard at least posts something that they are looking into MW, I feel like the MW community is being ignored atm.

4 Likes
24

Yep

Nah, we’re subpar for RBGs & complete gutter trash in Arenas. Feel that I can outperform both RDruid/Holy Priests in RBGs, so the spec might be ‘middle of the road’. No one wants middle of the pack or underperforming specs though, they want meta performing specs. So like MW… Frost, Arcane, Havoc, Fury, Prot, BrM, Demo, Blood, AsR, BM, SV, etc also don’t see much play. In comparison though, most of those specs above have an alternate that’s performing well, whereas MW is the sole healing spec for Monk.

1 Like
25

Right. I wouldn’t say we’re trash in RBGs either; however, we’re def getting treated like it due to the ever-increasing stigma were facing atm. I mean, ppl literally /w to say, “MWs are bad” when you try to sign up for low CR/no CR YOLO RBGs. Like, I could understand if ppl are going for their big push for high rating why you’d wanna maybe consider not playing w a MW bc we’re not “Meta”, but this… low CR scrubs refusing MWs… is kinda ridiculous.

Honestly, I really don’t think this is gunna change until MWs get a bit of a buff. It’s gotta happen soon though bc… well… MWs are getting shut out of everything; we’re falling more and more behind in an xpac where gear matters more than it did for a long time, and that’s just exacerbating our troubles. I’ve experienced being shut out, other MWs have experienced it, it’s in the forums, it’s in the LFG - it’s everywhere.

26

Not really. Given the strength of Rsham, disc, and Hpal, it’s not unreasonable

1 Like
27

I’d agree with most of OP. Running a MW in arenas truly feels like a struggle right now. Leveled up my Hpaly and man what a blast having such great instant healing coupled with much greater survivability.

1 Like
28

Well… it’s official. I’ve unsubbed too. I’m tired of logging into the game to have fun, only to leave the game feeling disappointed and miserable. I basically get to log in and sit around in Oribos, twiddling my thumbs, or farming boring WQs, watching as my btag lights up for Quick Join w my friends doing content I’m not welcome to participate in bc I play a MW. It hurts me every time it happens. It’s like being repeatedly stabbed, over and over again.

I’m capped out at like ~200 iLvl, and the game is pretty much over for me at this point. I’ve got nothing to do. I get to watch as ppl who joined SL later than me, and who put in less than half my effort, out-gear me - some by a significant margin too. Why? Bc they didn’t play a MW. And the power gap is growing. The longer this state of affairs continues, the worse it’s gunna be for MWs. They’re literally gunna have to break MWs to bring them back from the brink of near extinction.

But you know what? I’m not comin’ back. They can buff to their hearts content. They can make MWs god-tier. I’m not comin’ back. I didn’t pay money for an xpac only to play part of it, when Blizzard decides to finally make it playable for the spec I play. Nah. Hard pass on that deal. Blizzard doesn’t seem to understand that there are plenty of other non-Blizzard games out there. Maybe I’ll play one of those other games, and buy things from their in-game shop?

Honestly, I’m kinda curious to know if there’s even gunna be any MWs left in the game by the time they finally decide to address them.

Anyways, I’m not gunna keep on complaining. There’s no point. Have fun w your hPally rerolls - and the subsequent nerfs that’ll come to make you have to reroll again when they decide to alter the “Organically evolving meta!” :laughing:

10 Likes
29

Chan, the morale is at all time low for me as well. Ive not rerolled. I refuse. Ill unsub before I reroll. Thanks for the excellent read, its all on point. The MW community is really great and its uplifting to see other classes coming out to voice for us too. /hug

7 Likes
30

Yeah, probably the same for me, we’ll see.
Go find another game that brings you enjoyment, and I’d suggest following the development of Intrepid & Riot’s MMO titles. Ghostcrawler (Greg Street) is running point on Riot’s LoL’s rendition.

3 Likes
31

I stopped playing before the stigma got to where its at. I had gotten to 1700 RBGs (2100xp) and teams loved having me. MW can single handily heal a group with Yulon alone. Now that I’m playing again it’s hard to get into any groups even with 25% versa and 205ilvl.

2 Likes
32

If the enemy team has a MW it dies first. They just go down sooo easy. Maybe give them the touch of w/e that defensive is that ww has. Also allow them to cast soothing while moving, and reduce vivify cost.

1 Like
33

I think this sums up wow pretty well lol.
League of Legends has an ever-evolving meta because of constant champion balances, item balances, new champions entering, etc etc. Yes some champions are always very good, but they are rarely ever so oppressive for months (feel free to point out examples why I’m wrong…)

Wow is different than LoL, yes, but there are things to learn from league. When a champion is strong (or class/spec) people will migrate to playing that class/spec/champion because they believe it will give them easier rating. This is somewhat true for league as I believe there is less of an intro curve into new champions.

At worst, you learn a new lane, the champions 4 abilities, their item path, and how to combo/not feed.

For WoW rerolling involves a lot more, leveling, gearing, gearing some more, insert expansion system grind here, learning 15+ new buttons, understanding combos, defensives, mobility, how to not die etc.

I believe Blizzard should strive to have more regular balance changes than Riot simply because they don’t have a 150+ champion pool to balance. There are 36 complex specs they need to balance yes, but as soon as one gets out of line, they can slowly reel it back in. This is the same for underperformers. Small balance changes to bring them back in.

For MW: revert vivify mana cost–see if anything happens.
If not, revert fort brew—see if anything happens.
If not, increase expel harm healing–see if anything happens,
Etc, ETc.

Yeah MW isn’t going to go from being D tier to S tier overnight. No one is asking for that. What people are asking for is a level playing field. MW should have counters, as should Hpal. Stigmatization happens when there isn’t a level playing field. People see Hpal talked about having no weaknesses, so everyone wants to play the class thats good at everything. It makes the game more fun so why not?
Mistweaver isn’t bad. If MW is left alone in arena’s, rbgs, etc they can pump on healing. The downsides are going oom in 30 seconds, or getting pummeled.

Hpal on the other hand can pump healing, while getting tickled because they have an amazing kit. I do not want to see a large hpally nerf, I just want to see them be bad at something. They should be bad at healing through DoTs. Pallies are about massive bursts of healing, not constant healing.

As the meta naturally slows down we might see more of a rise of MW’s, but the problems that exist will still be there. Mana, and dying in a stun. Small adjustments can help MW fit into the meta. Once MW is too strong for w/e new meta comes out and is the Hpally of that meta, then slowly bring them into line, while brining others more in line.

Sorry for the ramble.

1 Like
34

Ya I expect more hpal nerfs around the corner.

But mistweaver needs quite a bit atm to compete

1 Like