SotWL used to take out the entire city block my man. It used to do health bars in numbers for damage. Old SotWL could rival double AoE ToD, but not require the talent investment or the dodgey HP requirement.
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lmao good description and yeah, it really did feel like that. The difference now is that the damage is all baked into Thunderfist but no really good delivery mechanism to dump high stacks of it. The damage is still really good given you get a couple stacks and pump it into the same priority target–but relatively, the tuning is worse and the niche different.
What has me most concerned – and WW is likely not alone here – but 20-30% of the damage profile of WW Monks now comes from borrowed power mechanics. I checked out a few of my parses, and the slime boots, raid staff, raid trinkets, onyx annulet, and 4pc all accounted for a third of my dps. That’s extremely alarming to me that my damage profile is made up of ephemeral gear.
My second pet peeve is ‘monk rune of power’. Thematically I actually like Faeline Stomp, but in keys and raids it’s a fool’s errand trying to maximize buff uptime. Quite annoying.
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Just w8 till you get Beacon to the Beyond.
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Right now i feel very frustated with my monk i’m playing WW and trying to push higher keys 23-24 but even with all the utility a monk can bring no one invites me, because paladins and priest do the same and deal a lot more dmg, tbh i feel like ww is even weak on high m+, while trying to compete againts the meta classes, is actually imposible, being capped hurts monks so much, your burst is not a big deal anymore, and other classes can do the same as monk but just better
Has been since BfA.
Blizz literally ripped the teeth from WW in what WW is supposed to specialize in. SotWL which used to do health bars in damage in AoE to the point that it could outcompete double ToD AoE, got returned to us neutered. FoF cleave got cut in half. MotC got butchered. It used to be a 50% damage amp a stack to SCK with no mark cap. Then Blizz nerfed SEF/Serenity.
Instead we’re stuck with SotWL neutered, SCK + MotC that doesn’t scale, FoF that is neutered, weak burst, and a janky ToD system that was made with intentional design flaws, all on top of a very unreliable kit in a spec that already doesn’t scale. Top that off with no real innovation, and here we are.
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They arent in a great place but it wasnt even that long ago they were S Tier M+ (SL season 3 and 4)
Disagree completely. RSK feels amazing to press and absolutely slaps on ST. Plus applies a stack of WoO on AOE. All monks should keep RSK. Take away the boring statue but leave RSK. One of the best buttons we have.
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Sure but was worthless before gift of the ox. And in SL it was also fine without it. As of WoO just let bk proc a stack. Dunno but if they want to tackle the button bloat they have to merge something.
After the rework of guardian it will look like this. Pala>DH>Guardian>Brew.
this is going to be a long post because I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently
Mistweaver only post:
Mistweaver has been treated very well this expansion and it really feels like it, a lot of stuff has been added and has made the spec feel much more fluent and engaging, while adding 2 different healing profiles in raid, and another playstyle in keys which makes it much easier to play which will help in keeping it fresh.
Some issues with the second profile in raid have arrived, such as how abruptly we swapped healing profiles, requiring to to a point learn how to play fights completely differently to how you would with the ancient teachings build we used prior, dragging the spec down and making the fights feel more frustrating because of it.
Another is the very steep learning curve and rewards for it at the moment, leaving a massive gap from our floor to our ceiling, which is discouraging atm.
With Blizzard’s designs to avoid these steep curves I would assume they are looking into this and would make changes in the future.
Mistweaver’s current learning curve feels unfairly high at the moment because of how qui, perhaps adding an additional charge of it to give you more time to use it and waste less of it, because of how important it is to your performance.
Talents I have problems with.
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Dancing Mist
Dancing Mist creates an issue currently where you have very little control in how much your rem peaks from it, producing moments where you carry and others where you don’t, and it doesn’t feel enjoyable not having this control.
An example where we do have control is yulon ramps atm where slamming envs creates guaranteed rems for your ramp. -
Clouded Focus
I have found Clouded Focus has has negatively affected multiple core designs of the spec, such a main target vivify, mastery, and RSK which is a staple in the kits performance currently.
Being locked in place for soothing mist wasn’t really a problem before when our priority was just keeping that 1 person alive, but in tandem with yu’lon and the current healing profile we’ve found ourselves in a position where we can’t move for long periods of time and are punished for it. -
Vivacious Vivification
Now more than ever do I wish this was reverted to being permanently active, we find ourselves locked in place constantly and with soothing mist vivifies consuming the proc we lose the potential option to have that 1 gcd grace to reposition without losing too much throughput, either change would do wonders in how it feels to play atm. -
Chi Burst
This talent is fundamentally a guaranteed pick because of its pathing, and has pretty much always been.
Unfortunately it feels painfully weak and admitedly I have resulted in just not using it at all unless I’m using Faeline Stomp just to reset it because it feels very low impact and I have many other much more important gcds on my mind to track.
Final Gate in the Mistweaver Tree
I currently feel our final gate is packed too tightly at the moment, with a lot of talents I wish I could use for builds, and others being effectively pushed out because of the power of others. and when looking around we have the most capstones, and basically don’t use half of them, which is an issue imo.
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Mmmm I don’t know that’s how the tier list will look, I think Brew still stays in 2nd or 3rd place. But we will see the performance and the tier lists.
It is absolutely insane we are not using tear of morning in raid right now. That talent is specifically built for what we are currently doing.
Tear of Morning:
They need to buff tear of morning so it can compete with the almighty 40k+hps rising mist. Allow ToM to spread more renewing mists.
Tea of Plenty / Tea of Serenity:
Both of these should add extra buffs to each of their respective abilities.
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Tea of Serenity → Could empower REM to spread to 3 targets / Spread EVM to 3 nearby people / vivify would cleave heal / single target heal all REM targets.
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Tea of Plenty → Could empower REM to spread to 3 targets / EF could cost 0 mana and do 100% more healing / RSK could cleave kick 4 nearby mobs and resets the CD of RSK.
All would have synergy with different talents in the tree.
With this setup we could currently add so much to the playstyle:
TFT → REM x2 to spread 6 REM’s → work on spreading more REM’s then ~30sec-ish later yu’lon / TFT → 2 EVM’s which add 6 REM’s from Rapid Diffusion → BIG cleaves!
Or maybe its like
TFT → REM x2 → spread more REM’s ~30sec → Yu’lon EVMx3 → TFT → EVM → Vivify for massive vivify cleave heal.
Or with the Rising Sun Kick cleaving to 4targets we could have 4 rising mists happen as well. Would be huge extensions for 1 GCD + AT healing + RM healing.
Or maybe with the vivify it would act as a sizable group heal being that it would direct / vivify cleave heal everyone in the group who had REM.
So much stuff they could do with ToM / The Tea talents.
Think of the 
Made a PTR post discussing some of these dead talents. I want all of our talents to be good.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mw-dead-talents-the-mists-could-be-strong/1606354
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I wouldnt consider SL WW good for M+. It was hella propped up by borrowed power and RNG. It could crank numbers, but the base system is roughly the same weak nerfed version we have today.
Legion WW would have dunked on SL WW for M+. And it wouldn’t even be from the raw firepower. I miss the days of giga pull and stun and bung.
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They lost me when the class turned into a pet class and was given statues (totems), makes the class feel closer to Shaman. You can roll an enhancement shaman and it doesn’t feel that far off than Windwalker.
I’m leveling one up now and IMO giving BrM rising sun kick was a mistake because it takes one of the abilities that make WW unique and now gives you less of a reason to go WW. The monk talent tree to me isn’t as diverse as many of the other trees. I was never a fan of bone dust brew for BrM as a covenant ability in the first place.
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the tier set is strong. bear might have one of the best tier sets in the patch, but it won’t be until the 10.1.5 update that people start playing bear. being viable enough to do content still leaves us paling in comparison to the large amount of power most healers have.
p.s. ur the best streamer, but a lot of people defend monk when it needs help :c
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I’ve played monk in the past, not recently. When I look at the WW talent tree, the left side seems to make decent sense for AOE, the right side seems like they just threw a bunch of stuff into it. Strike of the windlord could make sense if it interacted with other abilities, but the real eyesore to me is all the touch of death talents. Do WWs like those? Because from my not currently playing monk perspective, I’d delete those in favor of other talents.
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I agree with this. Chi Burst is just bad, and Chi Wave is even worse. I wish chi wave worked more like Priest Halo. Chi Burst needs to be instant, and have more play into the spec trees. Maybe allow it to return mana or energy? Maybe not just damage, maybe something that we can use?
I also agree on the Final gate being way too packed. They gave us some new talents and never really balanced out our points with Sheiluns Gift, Lessons, and Wisdom. Id love to see Ancient Concordance go down to 1 point and Focused Thunder moved to the Font of life or uplifted spirit node. Makes no sense to share one with Upwelling.
This way we could dip down into Tea of plenty/serenity, or even secret infusions would be obtainable. Ancient Teachings needs to be buffed back up to 200%, that nerf was just uncalled for alongside the massive nerf to healing.
Also, our class tree needs completely redone from top to bottom, I dont want to go into detail on it. THAT is the real Monk issue. Our class tree is just terrible. I was shocked when trying out Priest, Paladin, Druid, and Warrior for the first time. Those classes have really great choices on their class tree… Monks just pick the one that isn’t as bad. I love the playstyle of Monk, but I think seeing other class trees has absolutely ruined the class for me.
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Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever been more disappointed in MW then right now. I hate how we play in raid.
374k mana restored in a 6min fight and yet I’m still near oom. What is that? The arcane mage of healers.
I hate the garbage CF build. Don’t even really wanna raid at this point.
Edit:
I added up my mana “saves” from one of our rashok 5% wipe.
Was going to end the fight around 207-210k HPS.
Anywhoooo
My mana restored on the fight was 537,932
My mana saved through innervate + Mana tea was about 207,000
744,932 total mana saved or restored. What is that??? How is that good game design?
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Just run AT then?
You’re a good enough player that it wont matter much, plus world first is over.
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More like just modern mistweaver issues (or that we’ve become Early-Legion Disc).
Arcane Mage is actually designed for large scale mana regen, for us it’s just incidental.
As much as I do love the gameplay, it does feel like the most unstable version we’ve ever had.
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