It is not nostalgia goggles to preface any of the people that will default to this as a response. Burning Crusade had the literal best dungeons in any expansion ever. A large variety (possibly the most options compared to any xpac?), actual difficult heroic dungeons that required thought / cc / gear-checks (shadowlabs as prime example), and a badge system from killing the final boss to gain deterministic epic items.
How and why did they venture away from this? Seriously. Dungeons are supposed to be a pivotal if not primary form of game play in an rpg or mmorpg.
M+ feels bad. Regardless what anyone else says. It is like logging in to play an mmorpg and it turning the players into MOBA attitudinal players. The GOGOGO aspect of it and the toxicity it creates completely destroys what an MMORPG should be about. If I wanted to experience this level of toxicity, I would play league of legends or dota 2, but I don’t for a reason.
Can we please seriously consider a return to the state of good dungeons in this game?
- More Variety
- Deterministic Loot
- CC required instead of mind-numbing AOE pulls with people hitting their faces against the keyboard and making the healer’s life miserable if they can’t heal a tank not using proper mitigation against 15 mobs hitting them at once and DPS that don’t know what a dispell or interrupt is
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We ventured away because it isn’t the same Blizzard in charge anymore.
The old stuff was largely successful, but the new guard won’t bring it in because NeW WhAcKY iDEAs like no vendors are apparently better.
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I like the new ones. There’s base dungeon mechanics you learn as a rookie and then build upon them, I think it’s pretty cool IMO.
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That is what normal difficulty is for. Heroic should actually be well, heroic. You can have heroic difficulty be as tough as M+ 10 and still have normal be normal.
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Blizzard brought back difficult dungeons in Cataclysm and everyone playing decided it was the worst decision they had ever made.
We don’t have difficult dungeons anymore because the playerbase doesn’t want them.
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I do not think that is why people disliked cata, but we can agree to disagree.
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Just need cata pre nerf dungeon difficulty.
Pass on the badge system though tbh, They have a lot of this scaling mumbo jumbo in the game atm, they might aswell make use of it and make challenge modes of older dungeons and let their gear be on par with the current tier.
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I never said it was the sole reason. I’m just saying we don’t have difficult dungeons because the playerbase made it very clear that it wasn’t what they wanted.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the players.
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I think Shadowlands is already inspired by the positives of your idea. There’s certainly room for expansion.
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Exactly!, now its rush or don’t
If you remember TBC you remember players wanting easier heroics which they got in Wrath.
You’ll remember players then begging for heroics to require CC again, which we got in Cata. You’ll also remember being told to get gud by Ghostcrawler.
You’ll remember players complaining about CC in heroics, which they gave us ones that don’t require CC again.
After 8 years it’s clear players want easy heroics.
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Seems like the general playerbase got everything they wanted 
. So I guess its not farfetched for m+ either.
Imagine they had left heroics difficult. Where CC, interrupts, and dispels were required to do all of them. I bet we would have a higher baseline quality of player at this very moment. Instead of key board licking AOE spammers.
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Wrath killed any chance of that.
Ghost crawler was right though, players should had to of gotten good.
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I am imagining it, and it sounds pretty awful.
I healed during Cataclysm. It was one of the more horrendous experiences I’ve had in this game, and not because it was difficult, but because the playerbase’s toxicity was at an all-time high.
Players were consistently kicked for not putting out enough dps, healers (myself included) were kicked if they had to drink for a few seconds, and tanks generally thought their only priority in a dungeon was to keep aggro without any damage mitigation.
So I think I’m okay with not returning to that point in WoW’s time.
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You think the toxicity has left? Guess what. It hasn’t. Nor has it reduced. The M+ attitude levels and toxicity FAR surpass those of heroic dungeons in Cata from what I have seen. Anecdotal, but yeah.
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It was even worse as a tank ,Stone-core was insane back then .
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Can’t have starter dungeons require raid level tuning like cataclysm. There should be a build up, but overtime.
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I was there and that was never anything the player base wanted. EVER! They did want an easier way to find groups (which they gave us LFG in wrath, a bad version of that.) The only thing the player based complained about back then on heroic was the same they complain about now, lack of Tank/Heal (pick your poison).