Allow me to make a rather uncontroversial statement - we want this game to succeed right? I mean, I certainly do. And in the past there’s been a place at the table for all sorts of players. It has felt that way to me. I can’t quite identify what it is about this expansion (probably multiple factors) that makes it feel it’s an elite club and if you’re not on on the A list, you’re not getting in.
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But not all together.
I used to play with two other people all the time, but the deliberately difficult terrain and the poor design of content out in the world and the lousy rewards killed that. We all unsubbed.
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I can handle it. I play with people. And I am happy when I do. What i don’t want is that people like you take the fun out from people that dosen’t want to play the same way as you.
And I would be glad If modern wow took some things that I like from classic, like the more inmmersive zones, and the more exploratory side of things, but the poolish and balance that we have now, with the true freedom we have now.
And this will happen, and has happened, and those changes are good for the game, and the game should continue in the direction the people that are working on it want it to go.
They should stop for me or everyone elses.
And I cant still be the world of warcraft, having option to queue, and play alone dosen’t destroy raiding, or dungeoning. What Hurts the game is people that refuses change, that dosen’t adapt to change.
I been playing this game for its entire life cycle and have never encountered this.
You bet me to it, just hit the big 60 a few months ago 
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If you weren’t doing WQs, raiding, M+, or PVP before, what were you doing that’s changed recently? If you’re still thinking about 10 years ago, you’re right things were different but it’s been a long time and things can’t really stay the same. We’ve got more raid levels, more 5 man difficulty, new bgs, pet battles, more mogs to farm…
I feel where you are coming from Same age and been playing for about as long .
WoW for years has been my escape from a stressful day at work . Something I could hop into and do what I want to get geared up and progress my power in what ever content I wanted to do but since Legion and the need to farm AP tha that has been continued through this xpansion it often feels more like a 2nd job then a game.
If you think you don’t have to farm anima power like you did artifact or azerite guess again people . If you want improvements in renown gear you do .
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I did WQ mostly in BFA and then PVP (non rated). I don’t know, felt ok. I was able to get the stuff I wanted, feel like I was working towards something. All pretty humble stuff, but I was happy about it.
In Legion I did do mythic plus actually - but mostly solo world stuff, again, felt alright and I was pretty happy.
This expansion I really can’t be bothered to do the WQ because the rewards are uninspiring - I’m not interested in anima. There’s no gear to shoot for either, I’ve always been offered gear less than what I have, most of the time significantly less than what I have on.
Only thing mildly interesting to me at the moment is TC and Torghast.
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Pvp and WQ (+covenant) gets you almost normal raid level gear now. 3 ilevel difference, sure. Is that what feels shameful?
Edit I’m really not trying to come across as a jerk, I’m genuinely trying to understand because those activities have basically the same rewards now as bfa
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It’s pointless to try to talk to M+ and progressive raiders about the lack of progression for other kinds of players. They (most of them) LIKE it that way.
Ion has made the game for a minority of players who play the way he wants them to. Of course those players are happy. And they think if you don’t play like them, you don’t deserve a sense of progression or adequate reward.
It’s time to leave WoW if you are not part of Ion’s Select. There are other games out there. Go look for one that scratches your particular itch and let this dev team enjoy the dropping sub numbers.
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No one has been saying that . That is a strawman people keep making but is flat out untrue. People want a way to get better gear for the content they do that is in a reasonable ilvl ti what they do with maybe a slight upgrade but not to the ilvl that m+ players or mythic raiders get .
Casuals : We would like to maybe be able to get our gear to around 200 ilvl
m+ elitist : OMG WTF these casual scrubs want to get to 200 gear that means the ywant to be equally geared like us wit hour 220 gear.
even at 200 it would still be below the min m+ ilvl gear that will upgrade to 207
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You got data from a good survey on that?
If you’re playing 20 hours a week you have plenty of time to raid or M+ or PVP. So go do it if you want the gear instead of crying to mommy blizzard. Or are you bad?
To be fair, you raise a good point. I tried to clumsily elaborate further up the chain. I don’t feel, for my playstyle, I have anything really motivating me to do anything in the world really. It feels tangibly unrewarding. I suppose I could re-enter the PvP waters again, but you know it’s not my first choice of after-work game play. That’s my end of expansion game play choice normally. There’s no way for me to get upgrades on my trinkets, weapon, neck etc. with normal casual play right now.
As for the shameful part, I’m not ashamed to be a casual, and I think I did not express myself very well - I am not ashamed to be me and to be part of the universe, I feel instead we are meant to feel shame for it, which to me makes no sense. I pay with actual money (not tokens) for the game and have helped, along with millions of others, to contribute to it over the years. Nobody should feel shamed or disenfranchised for their game style.
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You’re already basically there though! Over if you’ve had a tiny bit of luck with WBs. And if you’re max renown, calling can drop 203. You’ve literally got what you’re asking for.
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Huh? My alt will have 8-piece iLvl 197 from her covenant and a 187 weapon after less than 2 weeks at level 60. I just need to grind a little more anima. It doesn’t get any more casual/solo friendly than that. She’s a mage so I don’t anticipate soloing layer 8 of Torghast but most classes can do that solo too, or just farm a little less ash each week.
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Your attitude epitomizes where much of the problems stem from. A bitter and caustic attitude, that at the end of the day, is fairly shortsighted. You would be surprised how much revenue is garnered from casual players. Unless, that is, you care even less about the game as you do for the other human beings playing it.
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Trinkets and weps can drop from was or covenant activities. The night fae theater gives me a trinket like once a week it seems.
This complaint I don’t understand. Besides a few obvious meanies who say stuff that’s demeaning (obviously not ok) nobody really judges the casuals (myself included in that group). They do say that rewards should be tied to effort, but that’s not a shaming thing. They’re just saying challenge yourself and do a little harder and you’ll keep getting better. But people take it super negativity like a personal attack.
If you enjoy 5 man dungeons. Find a few friends an start doing M+ for funsies. Get a 2 key and just go have fun. Eventually you’ll probably time it and get a 3. Rinse repeat. If it gets too hard to get past, you know what to practice. If you hit your ceiling, that’s okay you can still have fun and you’ll still progress.
Same goes for pvp or raids.
Let’s see one WB drop and have been doing it since World bosses came active . Renown in the 30s and the only calling gear I have gotten recently is a 194 weapon upgrade.
I could go do torghast and get more soul ash to upgrade legendary but I am really starting to despise that place.
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As for the trinkets, well that would be interesting if I ever saw one. But it’s like a rainbow farting unicorn, I believe it’s a myth. Haven’t seen that yet. There is hope yet however, if what you say is true, which I don’t doubt.
As for the shame part, talking about the forums. And I know the odd sourpuss doesn’t represent all people. I’m ok, don’t worry, I don’t have plans on hitting the rope store followed by the rickety stool store.
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