You made the claim that the white characters are fully fleshed out and that the PoC werent not me
Now we can we have a proper conversation without this sad attempt at mocking my intelligence
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Ok Micah. Sure. If thats what you understood from what all I have said then I can’t blame you for not being able to process any more information than you are capable of.
It’s ok. Know that people love you regardless.
Karestae hun.
uhuh sure thing
We’re not having this brain dead conversation where you think I’m someone else.
You were having a brain dead conversation regardless.
I’m asking you to stop mocking my intelligence. It’s not helping you one bit here
Sure thing Micah when you have something intelligent to add let me know.
Not going to keep wrestling in the mud by correcting you for things I have already clearly stated multiple times.
Either understand what is being said, or don’t, I don’t care either way.
You do realize you’re talking to a seperate invidual right? That I been playing this toon since BC.
Cope with that reality. Or seethe about it. Doesn’t really matter to me.
I’d draw that humans with asian-features are from Alterac. Then it circles back to the other issues that people smarter than I do have with this.
It was probably my bad reading comprehension. I interepted this is as two separate requests. Let’s say a major noble house from say, Darkshire, was Black. If Blizzard added a noble house that was black, but they didn’t say that a black humans were from Darkshire, but that particular house happened to be black, I would have no problem with it, because it’s not asking for one race to be from a specific area. I did not realize at first that Smallioz was also asking for that in his request. Don’t mind me.
Edit: In fact, I don’t know anything about this topic, and inserting myself here was a mistake. Sorry.
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The reason I seem more “insensitive” to said concern, may come from the fact that I see humans as I would any other fantasy race.
And just as I’d expect an explanation to notably distinct features such as Orcs having grey skin instead of green, I sort of expect the same from WoW human.
Also, and regardless of how unsavoury said truth is, having a character with distinct racial features usually points at a particular ancestry or heritage. Or at least, a mixed one.
I’m not a fan of making RL comparisons, but said fact goes for real life too.
And I honestly don’t see the issue in that.
Black Americans are still, at the end of the day, Americans. Just as American as white or Asian people that live in the country. And that’s a fact.
If someone is willing to challenge said claim, then they are simply racist people. With no place in anyone’s life.
Nor in this game.
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Again, not really fond of drawing these RL comparisons.
But wanted to clarify why I’m not overly concerned about treating human physique in the same way as we treat the one of the rest of races: because for me, they are as fantastical as orcs or elves.
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The setting should have certain level of development and explanation.
Only then, when the “rules” are set, do we have the freedom to interact with it to our fullest.
Take for example racial construction. Without giving it real depth, we don’t know how its behaviour ties with the rest of the narrative elements.
If we were to interact with any of its people, we would lack enough information regarding who they’d react to us.
If we do not have an approximate logic of the internal workings of the setting, we’ll find that we do not know how to act in it.
World building matters. And it’s not about finding an explanation to the secrets of the entire universe at a molecular level, but cultural and visual aspects are important for immersion.
I think if we want to approach this topic and summarize it in a bite sized chunk is that some people approach this issue in one of two ways.
One of story, world building and player story experience.
And the other is of politics, social issues and player’s personal RL experience in the game.
You can deconstruct any story and take the worst potential conclusions or nefarious intentions… or even unintended fallout because you are in that headspace or you could take it for what it is.
I don’t think “baby proofing” the story to make sure there is nothing thats offensive for people searching for offense is productive. Because that naturally leads to a steralized, surface level grey jumpsuits because we can’t be individualistic.
Absolutely.
But must admit, that given the issue some take with it, and how tender are certain topics for some, I think we should aim at a point of mutual compromise.
Not that I think that any of the proposals in this topic are extreme. But they obviously are “extreme” enough for some people.
That can be avoided.
PS: To be honest, I’ve been refraining from making certain suggestions, because I understand that not everyone has the ability to laugh at oneself or to distance as much from what is being shown in these sort of works of fiction, as I can.
I agree that there needs to be a basic foundation and a set of, I guess rules we’ll call them, on how the particular setting works and how people interact with the rules of the setting
I just think there are certain things that are best left to individuals to work out themselves regarding how they want their character to interact with the world and those around them.
Like when I rolled this Draenei years ago, I could make them be from Argus, The Exodar, born on Draenor, etc. There’s enough lore that allows me to mold my character how I want them to be and how they see the world around them.
But that’s just the roleplayer in me talking. Point is, people should be allowed to RP or say their character is from anywhere they want them to be, whether it’s Lordaeron, Alterac, Stormwind, Gilneas, etc. Certain skin tones shouldn’t be tied to specific zones is all I’m saying.
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For humans in particular, I personally do not see much of an issue there because of how restricted their current options are.
To explain better what i mean, the fact is that we’ve explored almost every inch of the EK. So there is no way that these skin tones could be “Otherised” as belonging from any place other than Stormwind, Gilneas or Kul Tiras.
The only thing that could be added here, is a background.
A “background”, in the form of a phenotype dominant in a particular kingdom, that was carried on through the family up until its shown in the current character.
To simplify what i mean: your character is from Stormwind but at least one of your ancestors, was from some other kingdom. A fact that, to be honest, wouldn’t be far fetched after decades of mixing due to the fall of most of the human settlements.
The “best” part of this circumstance, is that it’s entirely up to the player to decide how defined said character is by said background.
Maybe you want it to be a direct descendant (1st generation), or maybe its great great great grandmother married to some Stormwind baker and settled in the city.
Its entirely up to you as player, to decide how much of said heritage would you like to imprint into said character.
And this logic could explain a myriad of combinations and scenarios, while being as restrictive as you want it to be.
Would there be any bad faith agent/player that would use this to push some racist crap? Probably. It depends on the players you interact with.
But in all, I think that humans are one of the races that would have the least impact by this kind of storytelling.
Tauren, Orcs, Trolls and Dwarves are far more restricted in said regard, as it’s harder to claim that a you are from Mulgore when you have Moose antlers, or a Wildhammer if you have dark grey skin and glowing yellow eyes.
I get what you mean now. That’s not a terrible way to do it. It’s certainly better than some of the other suggestions that have been thrown around.
If we had the right set of writers, it certainly could be done in a tasteful manner and with the respect it deserves.
That’s probably the major crux for this and most other story-related issues.
We’ll see what the future holds, but for the moment, blizzard seems content in delving in completely new narrative lines and places, both of which are a safer bet in terms of storytelling.
Personally, my engagement with the story is at an all time low (with Shadowlands being the peak of my disinterest).
Don’t get me wrong, gameplay is the best we’ve had in a long long time. But lorewise? Meh, I can’t get myself to care that much about half these people we are just meeting.
At best, I’m mildly interested in whatever happens with Sabellian and Wrathion, but that’s about it.
The fact that they wasted BfA with that awful series of plots and character destructions, still gets me annoyed. Said expansion was the perfect chance to develop the segments of the story that we should feel more invested in: Our Factions.
And they just screwed it all over.
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Now that is your head space, and I get that you made this thread to push some sort of ethos. However, I disagree, because Humans are not as fantastical as Orcs and Elves. Elves and Orcs are fantasy Faire… but Humans are real.
Telling people their choice of color for a Human does not the story is a wretched way to alter on stuff - when the current lore has people of color there without some sort of “papertrail” to show why they should be alive and exist.
I understand some wretched corners of WoW fandom want to say : “WoW Humans have a certain criterion of skin color - so if you do not fit that specific criterion, we REAL humans can point you out as an other!”
That is deleterious to the story we have now, such as it is.
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Wow humans are mutated space robots with bipedal forms.
The only difference they have with Dwarves is the fact that their model was made taller by the creator “gods” of the setting.
Thing is, when I argue about WoW humans, I’m not talking towards RL humans.
I’m talking about the ingame race of fantastical mutated space robots, and looking at them through the inner workings of the setting itself.
This isn’t about having a stance on RL races.
This is about the development of yet another fantastical race created in a fictional universe.
And yes, this is a topic that people should be able to talk about.
It sometimes feels like certain narrative elements are held hostage through the sheer tendency of having player self inserting themselves into it.
And I’m not particularly against it. It’s great to have said level of engagement.
But maybe when someone is talking about fiction….he is indeed just talking about said fiction.
Nothing in WoW is purely fiction though. Blizz has based all the races off real life cultures and that’s why some of us hesitant about a lot of these ideas concerning the expansion of the human race in WoW.
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