Not everyone is as even-handed as you, Akiyass (pun not intended).
The Scarlet Onslaught and/or Brotherhood are fine as villains if they’re written well and not used for ax-grinding about real-life things.
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Do the Defias Brotherhood count as left-wing extremists? I personally don’t want to kill left-wing extremists, because I am one lol.
Just joking.
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Also, WoW elitists, like people who think Mythic Raid sets should be time-locked, and people who think the X-45 Heartbreaker’s drop rate is fine, have earned my wrath as well, and are also extremists. 
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The X-45 Heartbreaker’s drop rate… or Mimiron’s Head, or Invincible, or Nalak’s mount.
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The rational explanation was the demon that was running things. Also they were slaughtering Humans that weren’t wearing their tabards as well.
Racism is irrational at its core. Its an ideology, a belief system that feeds of basic xenophobia and tribalism.
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You’re the one claiming that Western nations (past and present) are more positive in representing and less of critical of religions other than Christanity. You’ve previously stated society doesn’t venerate Christanity or various establishment authorities as much as you think they should. You go on to state that you fear Blizzard is going to somehow uniquely villainize the Light. You create constant threads on the topic where I try to undermine the idea of a hypothetical Light Crusade expansion. You admitted in another thread how you have an issue with getting the last word in.
Even after you got the last word in in another thread, you created this thread for the sole purpose of continuing to make arguments regarding said other thread. And it’s not even the first time you’ve done so in the past couple of months.
I don’t falsely accuse you of things that you’ve already admit to and continue to do. I don’t need to. The truth speaks for itself.
If you are not enjoying these exchanges, I’ve already explained that I will drop it whenever you resquest. I’ve left the ball entirely in your court.
So with that in mind…
So when it comes to using the Scarlet Crusade to do things the Scarlet Crsuade would do, we should instead turn to the Scarlet Brotherhood and Onslaugt, who all wear the same clothes, contain many of the same members, and have the same zealous tendencies, ultimate goals, and can be used in place of one another narratively, but are not pretty much interchangeable. Got it.
And the Crusade is still there in game. The book material is, at worst self-contradictory. At best, it’s forced to make several caveats.
I repeated it because it’s true.
The writing leads like Daneuser, Golden, are still there, and even if they are willing to make some characters, like Xe’ra villainous, they have a long record of pushing Anduin Calia, and other Light based characters positively though. In instances where the latter have been retconned, it’s been largely to make them seem more positive.
You can keep expressing fear they’re going to throw all of them and the Light itself under the bus just because they introduced a couple more new characters who use the Light for bad. But your fear is unfounded.
We’ve watched the in game footage. She speaks to Illidan as she’s trying to forcibly transmogrify him, before he has a chance to give consent, and continues doing so even while he’s actively struggling to resist. She doesn’t mention or try anything else.
Turalyon didn’t defy or challenge Xe’ra. He begged for mercy before the verdict was given, then when the unjust verdict was deliver he voiced support for the verdict, and made no attempt afterwards to question or undermine the verdict. That’s not defying. That’s not
You’re the one who stated that you’d voice support for the state if they treated your loved ones in a way you disagreed with. You were the one who stated that even if authority is flawed, it is existence is a necessity. I can’t strawman you on things you actually stated.
And I never mentioned what Xe’ra had planned for Alleria because none of us know. We only know what what Xe’ra did, and that’s unjustly imprisoning her for life/undefined period despite Alleria having committed no crime.
But we do know that she withheld the fact that she and other naruu undergo a void phase even as she states she will never associate with the Void and locks up other people who use the Void only to help her and save peoples’ lives. Xe’ra being a lying hypocrite who engages in houlier than thou behavior regarding the Void is a known thing.
That they Xe’ra haven’t gone into detail about why she specifically dislikes the Void so much isn’t a “hole in the lore”.
You spend more time demanding sources for things that are easily found on Google than you do providing links. And many of your sources are contradicted by other sources or in game facts, which you’d be aware of if you read more. That’s how I know you don’t read up on much you discuss.
The existence of the Crusade does not hinge on what Shaw does/doesn’t believe the way the title of loa is bestowed by practitioners of voodoo in WoW.
A loa is whatever the practitioners of voodoo revere as a loa. That’s why G’huun was revered as a loa but other old gods weren’t, an old ghost like Zanza is a loa while other ghosts aren’t, powers like Elune can be revered as loa while the Earthmother isn’t, and some wild gods like Gonk are loa but Aviana isn’t.
Of course. That’s par for the course with every villain lately- along with a fair chunk of the good guys-no matter what cosmological force they wield or religion they practice. Blizzard writing being sub-par is not a unique attack on the Light, or religion, or authority, or whatever else you seem to fear it is.
You didn’t even counter argue it. You just dropped it by arguing that old and cliche isn’t necessarily bad-while constantly criticizing the ideas behind a Light Crusade expansion as being a villain as old and cliche. You seem to want it both ways.
I am very confident that I have read more (and likely experienced first hand more) regarding the topic than you have. Would you like to compare sources?
Being a group who fought (and so far failed) to reclaim territory on behalf of state/religious authorities instead of establishing themselves as sole rulers makes the Templars even more like the Scarlets.
So again, why did you not bring this all up, and instead attribute that element of the Scarlets to another organization that existed, mellenia later? Is it that you didn’t know about the fact, or did you intentionally leave it out?
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This is undeniably true in real life but what about WoW? Its not an ideology that would make South Shore farmer fear the undead to the north. Or the Night Elves to despise the Orcs to the South.
When you got a church of the light actually repelling hordes of undead or bringing plague lands to lush green.
Its not irrational any longer but rational.
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Most of wow interaction is about tribalism. Fears, phobias, and ignorance feed into that tribalism. Just like the real world those fears and phobias are exploitable by groups like the scarlet crusade for their own interests, and radicalising the people they are influencing according to their own agenda.
In the case of the undead though I’d make an exception. It seems very logical to doubt their sincerity (and I say that as a HUGE Forsaken fan 
)
The Forsaken don’t remotely resemble the people of Lordaeron anymore. Many of them are outright evil, and take pleasure in the torture of humans (as seen in the Undercity, Hillsbrad Fields, Silverpine Forest etc). Most of them utterly reject their past lives, and are encouraged to do so. They blight the land, kill the living, and generally bring death and destruction wherever they go.
It seems illogical to me for Lordaeronian humans to sincerely say “Oh yeah they’re still my people. Just good Lordaeron folks” when, while that may be true in some cases, that has not been the example of the Forsaken since they became a “race” of Azeroth.
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Maybe but typically its the Horde races that say “they will never tolerate us so lets do what they think we will do… that will show them!”
And the Alliance races just have their negative view confirmed.
When there is barely anyway to distinguish a Forsaken undead versus a Scourge undead then whats the difference?
We can apply the same failings to almost all the other Horde races…
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I will agree that the forsaken stretch the boundaries of acceptability. I also agree that its logical to be sceptical of their intent simply because they are undead. I don’t necessarily agree that it is completely accurate to do so. They have had mostly positive relations with the horde for the duration of wow.
To say that they are evil is to call them monsters and deny them a narrative. Its okay for humans to see them that way, but they don’t or shouldn’t see themselves that way. Where you see them taking pleasure in torture, I see them as delighting in the creativity of science and alchemy and being predominantly indifferent to the suffering of their subjects. Its for a good cause. The forsaken love life. They love seeing what makes it tick.
From warcraft 3 blight was regenerative for the undead. I’ve seen nothing to the contrary so I’ve operated under the principal that blighting the land is akin to terraforming for the forsaken. It makes the land more habitable for them. Just to demonstrate that its at least conceptionally valid still I’ll cite Plaguey (mission table -for bias confirmation) from Maldraxus. He has a toxin that damages all enemies and heals all friends (technically I guess undead).
I agree that would be immersion breaking. But (according to forum posts I’ve seen) that seems to be the line they were pushing for BTS’s gathering.
The other thread got locked when someone else reported it for straying off-topic into rl politics. And stop trying to twist my words.
Given the fact that the “bad side of the Light” was a retcon - one of many - and it was done through two bits of bad writing; literally sacrificing a naaru with lots of story potential to try and give Illidork cool points… and re-writing history and a cop-out of a time-skip to villain-bat some time-travel alternate universe Draenei. You may not want to believe it, but there are good reasons to be concerned and to say these things set a bad precedent for Light Crusade.
Pretending your accusations are true doesn’t make them true. I created this thread purely about the Scarlet Crusade not existing anymore. You are the one bringing in the other arguments from the other thread. Can you drop every argument that doesn’t relate to the Scarlet Crusade and these puerile, duplicitous personal attacks of yours?
I think we both have issues trying to get the last word in, but of the two of us I’m the one who’s honest about it. Why couldn’t you just make your own thread or PM me to continue the discussion after that other thread was shut down?
We’ve watched the in-game footage. Xe’ra and Illidan spoke to each other before she even extended those Light beams towards him and you know it.
I already explained that the Scarlet Crusade themselves are gone. You may not want to believe it, but they are. Deal with it.
Xe’ra summoned a beam of Light to strike Alleria, Turalyon stepped next to Alleria and begged for mercy. He and Lothraxion both managed to shake Xe’ra conviction, and only after asking Alleria to renounce the Void did she order Alleria imprisoned. Alleria tried to reassure Turalyon, and Turalyon himself resolved to trust Alleria despite Xe’ra’s objections (something even Lothraxion sympathized with). Your summary of that story left quite a few things out.
It is a hole in the lore because if we know why Xe’ra was more hardline than other naaru that could explore character motivations, expand lore and provide context for events… rather than what we got, which makes Xe’ra look as one-dimensional and poorly-written as the Jailer.
Telling someone to look for things themselves instead of providing evidence is a lazy cop out. The Scarlet Crusade parallels to the Knights Templar were obvious and not needing explanation (so I thought until you gave inaccurate information about the Templars), but similarities between the Taliban and ISIS weren’t obvious and needed explaining.
Evil beings rarely see themselves as evil. Almost universally, they see themselves as right or justified in their actions. So I don’t think you need to fear that eventuality.
But the rest of the Horde is more tricky… like if a Tauren comes to Trisfal Glades and sees Forsaken doing human experiments while their subject is suffering. You don’t think they would be disgusted and view the Forsaken in a different way if this guy can conduct his experiments in broad daylight without a hint of protest from the other forsaken?
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I’m disappointed your original thread got deleted. Bellular Gaming posted a new video that I think you may find interesting.
Although, the war between the Light and the Void was actually confirmed in the Legion comic, Son of the Wolf, but in the comic it shows Anduin as an old man hinting this may be an expansion far in the future, or after Shadowlands if Anduin returns with white hair similar to Arthas’ after he became a Death Knight.
I think the first ever clue that there are possibly ulterior motives, was when Sargeras originally appeared to Archimond as a being of Light and that’s how he lured the Eredar to join the Burning Legion.
with the shakeups at blizzard this storyline might be dumped in favor of something else.
Shadowlands and BFA were such disasters that they must be rethinking their whole strategy.
Or they might just double down. It is the blizzard culture afterall.
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Bellular approves and obsesses over Light bad guys even more than I am opposed to the villain-batting of Yrel’s (and that’s saying something 
) and it clouds his judgement and perceptions regarding the lore. That said, while I don’t agree with his entire summary, he raises a few good points (Alliance division, characters on opposite sides).
I hope if the storyline has to be implemented it’s something good. The problem is what we’ve gotten so far are things that sound meaningful at first, but after you think a moment, instead of getting some rush of insight, you realize that it is nothing more than nonsense, a joke or an insult disguised in pretty words. Essentially a 14-year-old’s first attempt at philosophy (angsty 14 year old in some cases).
There is a negative side to the Light. That is undeniable.
In Legion there is a quest called “This is Retribution.” that seemed to set up Uther’s story in Shadowlands. He notes that when fighting the Legion he is overcome with righteous anger.
Anger seethes within me like smoldering coals.
One stoke, and that anger will flare into a roaring flame.
The Legion’s attack on Exodar was just the motivation I needed, Highlord. I’ve watched my brethren die for the last time.
Now, I will be the one who does the killing. I WILL have justice! Help me, Highlord, and slay any demons you encounter in lower Faronaar.
The Light has been called, via multiple sources, “The Maker’s Flame.” and according to Alaglon The Observer, the Maker’s used to cleanse entire worlds in the Maker’s Flame.
Upon completion of this quest Boros, realizes that what he felt was venegence not retribution, and that was the dark side of the Light. Light = Fire.
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But he’s not doing anything wrong about “This is Retribution”; you’re fighting uncompromising demons who want to genocide the universe, a lack of anger would be unusual.
What sources has the Light get called “The Maker’s Flame”?
How do you know whether Boros’ vengeance came from the Light rather than just Boros himself?
Algalon and the Arakkoa in WoD.
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