Evil/zealot Light worshippers are a necessity, because without them, the Light would just straight up be the ultimate, purely good and benevolent force it is almost always depicted as. And that’s impossible in a game like WoW where you can play as many different races with different religions, all of which are real.
As for racism, I don’t think tribalism is specifically related to it, at least not in Warcraft (I doubt it is in real life either). Imo racism is everywhere in Warcraft for two reasons : 1) because racial grudges stay strong for ages due to the specificities of the passage of time (5k years means nothing in WoW, and many races are extremely long-lived/virtually immortal), 2) because on Azeroth and even more on Draenor, environments are super harsh and everything is trying to kill you. Makes up for very defiant and warmongering cultures, and you constantly need to fight in order to defend your resources and territories
6 Likes
Going on about the negative side of the Light in relation to Scarlets doesn’t really work, because the Scarlets, lorewise, are from a time when the lore for the Light was fundamentally different.
As recently as WoD, the Light and the Shadow (not the Void) were fundamental forces of creation with no inherent good or evil to them. One was just more suited to be wielded by entities trying to do good, and the other more suited to those with darker intent, but the forces themselves weren’t good or bad. There was also far more overlap between magical types and different variations of those who wielded magic. You can see this even in Cataclysm era zones, such as Thousand Needles, which showcases Twilight Cultists that wield the Light.
So you can’t really look at Scarlets through the lens of current Light lore, the last time they were actually relevant to any extent (MoP Scarlet Monastery revamp) was when the lore was entirely different regarding those forces.
1 Like
I disagree. There is an easy fix for that situation in WoW you described; have the Light be morally good but not all knowing or all powerful. Good characters/forces can make mistakes and fail, which provides story tension.
You can even have conflicts among the forces of good, “Good vs Good” is also a trope (where two characters who are both morally good fight). For example, two morally good characters could fight and have their followers fight due to being on opposite sides of this argument; Hurt the innocent to get the guilty or spare the guilty to save the innocent. In fact, if you wanted Naaru vs Naaru conflict, I could see Xe’ra on the former side and A’dal on the latter.
But we already saw X’era perform an evil act.
Pshaw! 
Our player characters, and several others, have done several things worse than Xe’ra’s failed attempt to Lightforge Illidan by force (child killing, torture, mind control, killing helpless prisoners for lulz)… and they escaped the “evil” label. And Xe’ra was a sweetheart compared to Sylvanas, who’s also escaped the “evil” label for some fans. In fact, I’ve even heard of people wanting to recruit SARGERAS to help us. If people think SARGERAS is redeemable, they have no grounds to write off Xe’ra.
I’d take Sargeras over X’era any day.
Why? Sargeras has done to others what Xe’ra did to Illidan thousands of times over.
Can you prove X’era wasn’t just as crazy as Sargeras?
Typical deflection tactic on your part. That’s a problem in fandoms but it’s especially common in WoW - thinking morality is based on how much you like or dislike a character.
- Turalyon and Lothraxion talked Xe’ra down. Has Sargeras ever been talked into showing mercy?
- Who has tortured their followers for failing to accomplish a goal? (hint: not Xe’ra)
- Who committed a planetary genocide because one person killed his pet?
- Who’s trying to destroy the universe? (hint: not Xe’ra)
- Who killed their own brethren for disagreeing with their genocide plan?
I can give more…
Can you put aside your feelings towards the characters and prove your claim about Xe’ra and Sargeras?
By the way, when did Algalon call the Light “the makers’ flame”?
1 Like
Actually yes, Sargeras when he first tried to warn the Pantheon of the Void, Aman’thul and Aggtamar told him that there may be other ways they could stop the void. They did ask Sargeras to have mercy, but then Aman’thul told Sargeras his plan was to create a Dark Titan on thier side and that’s what made Sargeras create the Burning Legion, to destory World Souls before they could be corrupted by any cosmic influence even his own brethren.
Just because X’era hasn’t amassed the same power as Sargeras, doesn’t mean she doesn’t share the same traits. What about Alleria seeing the Light as a predator roaming The Great Dark Beyond? There has to be some truth to that if the Void considers all paths to be true.
X’era held Alleria captive and tried to convert her as well. People who are so blinded by a singular goal, to a point where they would disregard the ethics of their motives, are evil people. X’era has the capacity to be the most evil entity in the Universe.
Algalon said “I have seen worlds bathed in the Makers’ flames, their denizens fading without so much as a whimper. Entire planetary systems born and razed in the time that it takes your mortal hearts to beat once. Yet all throughout, my own heart devoid of emotion… of empathy. I. Have. Felt. Nothing. A million-million lives wasted. Had they all held within them your tenacity? Had they all loved life as you do?”
The Maker’s Flame presumably is re-origination. Re-origination is Light based magic, The Arakkoa also mentioned this maker’s Flame, but they attributed to the Sun. Solar Magic = Light.
Can you put aside you feelings for X’era and admit that she did wrong by trying to Lightforge people who refused to be Lightforged? This goes for Y’rel too. The Light should be a path the faithful choose, not a punishment forced upon the wicked.
You ignored or mispresented facts for every point I raised (for one, Xe’ra compromised, Sargeras didn’t). 
It’s a question of morality, not power. You also ignore what Sargeras has actually done to fearmonger about what you think Xe’ra might have done if she wasn’t killed.
Alleria and Locus-Walker dismissed those visions of the Void as lies in that story, including the vision of the Light as a predator roaming the Great Dark Beyond. What makes you think the sanity-shredding, ravenous, self-contradicting Void - which runs on doublethink as many of those so-called truths are mutually exclusive - doesn’t lie?
Side note, how do you feel about Illidan and Sylvanas?
Where did you get the idea that re-origination is Light based? It comes from Titan technology.
I’ll put aside my feelings if you do the same to yours and at least admit Xe’ra is not comparable to Sargeras or at least is less bad.
And after we do all this, can we please get back to the topic of this thread, the Scarlet Crusade.
1 Like
They didn’t dismiss them as void lies, Locus Walker tells Aleria to dismiss the Void’s Whispers as lies because if she believed them she would succumb to the Void. That’s not outright saying the Void is lying. For all we know, the Void is saying dangerous truths.
I don’t care about Illidan or Sylvanas, I think they are both pretty irredeemable characters.
The Scarlet Crusade are still around. There were pamphlets teasing them coming back with Deathwing and Calia’s legitimate child to challenge Sylvanas and Genn Greymane for the Kingdoms of Lordaeron and Gilneas.
Looking back at the story, here’s something for us to think about. This is from that story, word for word, quote;
"The Locus-Walker kept her firmly afloat. “You have known the Shadow as nothing but horrors. The Shadow sees the Light in the same way. Neither viewpoint is true. Neither is wrong.” The roar of the Void nearly drowned him out. The masters of the Void were clawing at her mind. She barely fought them off. “The Light seeks one path and shuns all others as lies. The Shadow seeks every possible path and sees them all as truth.” "
" As she swam in the Shadow, all these visions seemed true. At first."
“Slowly she began to see the difference between the Shadow’s memories… the Shadow’s plans… and the Shadow’s desires. And from that…”
“Destiny. She saw what the Light could not. She saw what even the Shadow could not, because, yes, it was just as blind.”
"A Thousand Years of War", page 37
That’s a relief. I was concerned you might be someone who whitewashes Illidan and Sylvanas.
Those pamphlets were from the Scarlet Brotherhood, either former members of the Scarlet Crusade or non-members becoming copycats (maybe without Nathrezim influence this time).
1 Like
It depends on if we actually defeat the Dreadlords, or they become their own independent organization not tied to Death. They seem to not serve the Jailer but Denathrius.
I am curious to know more about the thing Denathrius did that caused the Light to seek retribution and attack Revendreth. It does seem like the Light itself does want Revendreth to serve the true purpose of redeeming souls and not just using them as anima batteries, so at least that’s a positive.
If creating a dark titan was Aman’thuls plan, then risking Azeroths life to defeat Y’shaarj goes against that.
Sargeras was the one who wanted to create a pantheon of Dark Titans. And that was after he made his burning Legion. I would suspect it was after Sargeras “saw” what Azeroth looks like and fell in “love”. Aka post War of the Ancients.
The thing that drove Sargeras to create the Legion was that his kin were more concerned that Sargeras had killed one of their own instead of assessing the situation. Like they did when it came to Azeroth. However Sargeras was right in that the failsafes the Titans left behind would not hold the Old Gods. C’thun and Yogg-saron corrupted their guards over time. Meanwhile N’zoth just had to be patient. Hell, even Y’shaarj came back, somewhat.
Aman’thul didn’t know that ripping an Old God out of the planets crust would threaten Azeroth’s life.
I’m not sure about the love thing, I don’t believe there’s ever been a romantic connection between Sargeras and Azeroth. He wanted to kill her so that she wouldn’t become a Dark Titan. If a world soul was ever turned into a Void Titan, they would be the most powerful being in the Universe and would herald the destruction of the Universe. Aman’thul thought there could be a way to stop the Void without having to kill Azeroth.
The Scepter of Sargeras lore explains it. After being flushed back to the Nether by the WoE imploding. Sargeras, just for a second saw what Azeroth would look like once she matured. And he wanted her to himself. Which is what Sargeras was doing during Antrous the Burning Throne. Thoughout the raid you can see Sargeras wrap himself around the planet. Stabbing the planet was a last ditch effort.
Also the term you are after is a void titan, not a dark titan. Dark Titans are what Sargeras wanted to turn his kin into. Aggramar being the first. Void Titans are titans corrupted by the Old Gods. The two are not interchangeable.
And that was to lock up the Old Gods and find a way to destroy them. Without leaving a mess and without hurting Azeroth. Like what happened with Y’shaarj. In that case the sha and the giant hole in the planet that became the Well of Eternity. Which is what Uldir was for. However… things didn’t go to plan and they created an Old God of their own. That being G’huun.
Aman’thul did not want to create a dark titan. I would love to see where you got such a notion though.
Actually he did. Which is why they created the Titanforged in the first place. However Y’shaarj was too much of a problem for the titanforged to handle. Therefore Aman’thul took the risk and ripped the Old God like a weed.
1 Like
Interesting how you went for that bait and not answering the question I asked. Where exactly did you read that Aman’thul wanted to create a dark pantheon? Or is it part of your own headcanon?
1 Like
I don’t understand, why were you trying to bait me?
Why did you go for it instead of answering the question I asked?
To answer yours, I wanted to test a theory.
1 Like