Well it is hard to approach zealots with a contrary opinion, almost by definition.
And when it comes to the Scarlets and their hatred of nonhumans, it would take a Human to even broach the subject. Other races might not even get near enough to discuss anything. And that is just one example.
Tyrande even tells Velen to keep his theories to himself around more sensitive ears. Even Velen had a hard time trying to have an open discussion about their faiths with a fellow racial leader of the Alliance.
How do you define zealot? What words or actions does a zealot need to commit to warrant such a response from you? The Scarlet Crusade are zealots who want to kill every non-human and convert or kill every human outside their group. Few, if any, real-life groups fit that criteria.
Plus theyâd likely just retaliate in kind with a boot or punch to your mouth.
You are missing the point with that statement. In real-life, humans are the most intelligent species on this planet, by far. On Azeroth, many races are just as intelligent, if not more so. Many groups have a racial hatred towards other groups of humans, and a desire to kill them
The fascination with Scarlets has always baffled me because there hasnât been a single time in the history of WoW that they were actually competent or effective at all in the exercising of their zealotry. They have no victories, they have nothing to show for even what the Argent Dawn handed to them post Naxxramas at the end of Vanilla.
We have lore about why the split happened and what their ideology was, and their most powerful member, Alexandros Mograine, would not have been on their side had he been alive when the split happened. The comics show that the split formed not just of zealotry but because the side that eventually formed the Scarlet Crusade was made up of humans who considered other races âimpureâ.
That is the only canon we have.
The âgood Scarletsâ exist already, and always have. The Argent Dawn, or more specifically the Brotherhood of the Light portions, has all the ruthlessness, zealotry, and âwe get the job doneâ mindset of the Scarlet Crusade, just without⌠you know, the xenophobia and flailing ineptitude.
Half the time I feel people latch onto Scarlets because they see that other people rightfully dislike them and want to feel special.
See thatâs what I said but Thadeus thought I was trolling. If he wants a good depiction of Light worship without the zealotry he should back the Argent Dawn lead by Tirion Fordering.
A true religious Light zealot would have likely noted by now that the people with the most raw power from the Light are the ones that at the very least give chances to all beings or races.
Alexandros, arguably the most powerful Paladin who ever lived, ordered Abbendis to stay her hand in killing a Troll, because the Troll wasnât trying to be a threat and just wanted to talk.
I keep the Crusade and the Dawn distinct because they seem to be so during Cata (tabards and such). The Crusade in general is a bit softer, despite the name, and shifted more to resettlement and frontier work after Wrath.
The Dawn and the Brotherhood of the Light are still parked right in the thick of it, and the latter even refer to themselves as âThe Scarlet Crusade but actually competentâ.
I think the popularity of, and fascination with, the Scarlet Crusade, is for a few reasons;
Their motives are more human than groups like the Burning Legion or the Old Gods
People being fans of Whitemane or Alexandros
The Scarlet Crusade are more well-written than some WoW antagonists (the Jailer comes to mind)
WoW players/fans using them as stand-ins for real-life groups or people they oppose - as certain other people in this thread have shown (possibly some of the writers do this too; quite edgelord imo given who theyâre often used as stand-ins for and how itâs done, but it is what it is)
Iâm not sure if the Crimson Dawn are still around, and where did you hear the Brotherhood call themselves âThe Scarlet Crusade but actually competentâ?
A hard sell with zealots of all types - religious or otherwise - but it can be done. Deradicalization is a thing. In-game, weâve even seen defectors leave the Scarlet Onslaught, Twilightâs Hammer and others.
What is the Brotherhood of the Light? Well⌠We are all members of the Argent Dawn at the core - members of the Argent Dawn that arenât held in check by morals, guild and useless human emotions. Consider us Scarlet Crusade minus the stupidity, lack of leadership, and blind zealotry.
Donât let the Scarlet Commander tell you otherwise.
And donât let Tyrosus know that I said that⌠it would be a terrible shame if I had to brutally maim him should a brawl break out.
The Argent Crusade is a merger between the Order of The Silver Hand and the Argent Dawn. It only remains in-game for gameplay reasons. Korfaxâs dialogue is the same has he had in Vanilla. Blizzard most likely forgot to update it. I believe that human and dwarven Paladin trainers will mention being Knights of the Silver Hand if you try to talk to them as a non-Paladin.
Tyr is gonna come back soon, he may even be Revil Kost.
If the next expansion is Dragon Isles than what better way to bring him back since heâs been presumed dead but the last time he was seen was Dawn of the Aspects.
The Scarlet Onslaught is interestingly far more liberal when it comes to the use of darker magic. Raven priests, bishops, warlocks and even death knights exist within the Onslaughtâs ranks.
The Scarlet Brotherhood is much more inclined towards cooperation with non-humans and Alliance, albeit with a specific agenda in mind.
Anyway re the zealot thing⌠Iâm a big Scarlet Crusade fan so I hope they prosper! We need more Azeroth-based villains tbh. Iâm SO over cosmological realms and big threats lol. Kinda miss the small-scale villainous factions.
Exactly, the Scarlet Crusade, Scarlet Onslaught and Scarlet Brotherhood are not interchangeable.
I would also like to see Azeroth-based villains. While Iâve said the Scarlet Crusade are gone, thereâs still a bit of the Scarlet Onslaught left and the Scarlet Brotherhood is a thing.
I just hope theyâre well-written and also not used for axe grinding about real-life things; eg, making them blatant caricatures of the Westboro Baptist Church (looking at you, HBO Game of Thrones) and/or QAnon.
Yeah thereâs definitely an inclination, even on this forum, to say âlol letâs make them evil Christians because Christians suck haha gottemâ but to me the appeal of the Scarlets was never religious zealotry, at least not exclusively. I found it fascinating watching the tattered remnants of a civilisation cling to existence after a literal zombie apocalypse, and how their mission of survival became tainted with demonic influence. I enjoy the morphing from Alexandrosâ Mograineâs âresistance movementâ to the crazed extremists who have been convinced to trust nobody, and who, in the case of the Onslaught especially, come to embody the very things they were formed to fight against. I guess to me itâs a tragic narrative of a fundamentally well-intended movement fallen to corruption, made even more fascinating by the manipulative dreadlords that managed to subtly reduce noble Paladins and Priests of Lordaeron to xenophobes and torturers.
Itâs an insult to their fascinating narrative, frankly, to compare them to the Westboro Baptist Church.
I agree with what youâre saying (as for that inclination on this forum, Iâve definitely encountered that and can even name names, but I wonât this time). I like your summary of the lore for the Crusade and the Onslaught.
I wasnât comparing the Scarlet Crusade, Scarlet Onslaught or Scarlet Brotherhood to the Westboro Baptist Church. I was saying I hope the devs donât go that route.
I cited Game of Thrones because of how the writers shoehorned that âchurch hates the gaysâ stuff into the show when itâs not in the religion from the books (among other things - like the show cutting out the Warriorâs Sons, their butchering of Stannis and Melisandre, or the book Sparrows movement being a religious uprising against corrupt or uncaring nobles)