The undead rose up around the globe, we got to experience them attacking Redridge in that Kyrian Quest.
Not to mention word would travel that the hole in the sky was opened up by Sylvanas, leader of the Forsaken.
She, and her forsaken, attacked Bolvar, a champion of the Light who risked his life to contain the Undead, for us.
The Scourge have continued to be a plague upon this land and must be wiped out!
The Onslaught and Brotherhoood are pretty much interchangeable with the Crusade now? Im glad you now agrree. You argued very much the opposite in the other thread aas a way of trying to dismiss the possibility of them participating in a hypothetical Light Crusade expansion.
And even in the book, the author believes the Crusade is still around. Itâs only in later notes that theyâre made aware of the Ebon Blade attack and even then, the claim that theyâre wiped out is second/third hand intelligence that comes with two caveats in the form as âas far as we knowâ, followed immediately by pointing out how the group has a tendency to survive extermination in the same way rats and roaches do.
The Crusade, and their extremist ideology, is still there- just waiting until Blizzard decides to bring them back into the spotlight again. Like during a hyppothetical Light Crusade expansion.
And speaking of the other threadâŚ
Iâve been going back and forth over lore and addressing bad arguments for years before you started posting. Iâll be doing it when/if you stop posting. In my free time, I enjoy providing helpful facts and addressing ignorance regarding my favorite creative works/hobbies.
Iâm not afraid. Thatâs why I donât bemoan the idea that society doesnât venerate Christanity or various establishment authorities, the way you do. Itâs why I donât fear Blizzard is going to somehow uniquely villainize the Light, like you do. Itâs why I donât create constant threads on the topic where I try to undermine the idea of a hypothetical Light Crusade expansion, like you do.
And I pointed out the instances where you tried to downplay and/or justify Xeâraâs actions in the other thread. You responded to them. Donât try and deny it.
Again, I explained my defintion and pointed out examples in the thread. You respended to them. Donât try to deny it.
Blizzard lore was changing wildldy since the inception of the Warcraft franchise. the transition from Warcraft 1 to 2 to 3 to WoW and every expasnion has come with huge changes. And no, Blizzard didnât make those biggest decisions based on what fans were loudest about wanting, so I donât know where youâre going with that one.
They clearly do faavor some characters, particularly Anduin and have been pushing Calia as of late, so the idea theyâre going to universally villainize the Light and all its assocated characters is unfounded.
The fact that she didnât do anything else but try to forcibly transmogrify him is the proof that she didnât have anything else planned. That was her only plan and the only thing she ever bothered doing.
You tried to argue simultanrously that Turalyon was right o obey her, but also that he defied her. But he didnât defy her. He went right along with what she did. And you tried to argue it by asking what Iâd do if my loved ones were tried in a manner I disagree with.
And even if you can agree that the situation isnât 100%, you are trying to draw pararells between how he was right to obey her and how we shoudl, in real life, also obey the dictates of the state even when we disagree.
Of course if you change your original question and now have the authorities making fair decisions that I agreed, well then there wouldnât be anything to defy.
But Xeâra didnât make a just decision regarding Alleria. And Turalyon never defied that decision.
I canât tell you why Xeâra dislikes the Void as she never explains. it All we know is that she thinks itâs bad and dislikes it so much that she unjustly punishes Alleria simply for associating with it, even though Xeâra herseld (and all naaru) experience a Void phase and she refuses to admit it. Thatâs where Xeâraâs hypocricay and self-righteousness comes into it.
I know what Iâm talking about because I read about and look things up before I mention them. I recommend you do the same, as it will keep you from being wrong about so many things. It only works if you go in to use the information to inform your understanding though- not if you just want to reaffirm your preexisting beliefs.
Thatâs how I know that Gâhuun was indeed a âblood loaâ, because the term loa can apply to Old Gods, and Eternal Ones, and Wild Gods, and Ghosts, and more under voodoo in WoW.
As we can see, many loa (including Muezellla and almost Bwonsamdi) , their followers, and their powers have been negatively portrayed in the game. So your fear that Bllizzard would uniquely target characters or powers related to the Light religions for villain batting is wrong.
Youâre wrong . You need to actually read more about the history of the protrayal of non-Christian religions compared to Christianity in the the current Anglosphere zeitgeist. Because you are very ignorant of the disparities in portrayal and how they get used narratively.
I already explained how in the last thread. And you responded to it. Donât deny it.
Because you left out the fact that the Templars also sought to secure territory, just so you could instead attribute that element of the Scarlets to another organization that existed mellenia later. Either you didnât know about the fact, or you intentionally left it out. So which is it?
That is wrong. I said âa group like thatâ about the Scarlet Onslaught and Scarlet Brotherhood; being similar does not equal being the same. Youâre trying to put words in my mouth with that âpretty much interchangeableâ bit.
The Crusade arenât still here no matter how much you or others want them to be. By your logic, his statement about them surviving the same way rats and roaches do is as unconfirmed as you think his statement about them being wiped out is.
The Scarlet Brotherhood and Scarlet Onslaught are not interchangeable; they are - at most - as close as it gets since the Scarlet Crusade is gone.
If you were really doing this out of enjoyment, I donât think you wouldnât be making such dubious claims and repeating debunked accusations to try and unbalance me. If doing those things is part of your enjoyment, that says more about you than me.
In the previous thread I explained why youâre wrong about me, donât try and deny it. Next time I repeat those reasons, you either once again try to deny those reasons and keep repeating the accusations, ignore them or gloss over them to try and prove this prediction wrong.
Iâve repeated condemned Xeâra trying to Lightforge Illidan by force and you know it.
In that case youâre just repeating that accusation to try and troll me.
Some characters, groups and expansions get retconned more than others. Has Thrall been retconned and whitewashed as much as Sylvanas? Has Darion been whitewashed and retconned as much as Illidan?
You say itâs unfounded, but for reasons I already explained in conjunction with the depletion of the dev team following the lawsuit and the likelihood of new hires either being inexperienced or ideologues (as happened with Bioware between Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect Andromeda, so thereâs precedent)⌠Iâll âpress X to doubtâ.
You deliberately ignore in-game content and lore to claim Xeâra tried to âforcibly transmogrifyâ Edgydan. If that was her plan from the get-go, she wouldnât have bothered speaking or asked any questions⌠which she did. Now please drop this strawman you keep pushing.
You tried to claim that he never defied nor challenged her. And you also tried to argue your side by asking what Iâd do if my loved ones were tried in a manner I disagree with.
And you strawmanned me by claiming that I advocated blind obedience because you thought I was accusing you of being a âno one tells me what to doâ type contrarian edgelord⌠especially if I indicated in any way that Xeâra had a point.
You also misrepresent what Xeâra planned to do to Alleria.
At least you acknowledge there is a hole in the lore regarding why Xeâra dislikes the Void so much⌠but then you take that lack of information and deliberately assume the worst of her rather than merely consider it a possibility.
You claim I donât read up despite me repeatedly quoting lore sources word for word while you usually just give summaries and deliberately twist the quotes I give.
You left out that the blood trolls called Gâhuun a loa. Thatâs their assumption, just like you claim itâs only an assumption for Matthias Shaw to say the Scarlet Crusade are gone, remember that; no double standards or moving the goalposts.
I might not have thought Blizzard would uniquely target characters or powers related to the Light religions if they hadnât started whacking them with the villain bat as poorly as they have.
Hereâs another prediction; if they bring in AU Xeâra as a villain, she will be poorly written and established like the Jailer has been.
Youâre wrong. You actually need to read more about the history of portrayals and criticisms of Christianity compared to the current Anglosphere zeitgeist. For one, the Hays Code was established in 1930 and abolished in 1968, and it only applied in the U.S; only 38 years in one country⌠thatâs a tiny chunk of Anglosphere history lol.
You also donât know what I know about the portrayal of non-Christian religions - short answer, âyouâre almost right butâŚâ
And you made another counterargument which I also responded to, and you know it.
You claimed the Templars sought to secure territory for themselves⌠and I proved they were actually doing it on the orders of others; specifically various nobles, royals and the Catholic Church.
The Templars werenât, nor did they become, a government, they acted on behalf of governments and the Catholic church (they were disbanded due to false accusations from a French King and a decree from the Pope at the time). So, either you misread what I said, or you once again misrepresented what I said.
While the undead attacks were global, how did word leave Northrend before Bolvar spread it that Sylvanas had put a hole in the sky?
The only first-hand witnesses to that were Sylvanas, Bolvar himself and whoever was in Icecrown at the time (so just members of the Scourge).
Thieves who saw Sylvanas walk into ICC.
Warlocks, priests and mages who were practicing their dark arts.
Argent Dawn, Scarlet Crusaders, or Knights of the Ebon Blade on patrol.
Death Knights able to control undead, forcing them to âspeakâ of what had occured.
Lots of possible ways.
I miss the SC. They were almost as fun to slaughter as Alliance. Only thing thatâs more using religious zealots as a punching bag.
Some are more likely than others; patrols from the Argent Dawn or Scarlet Onslaught are possible.
Not so much the Ebon Blade; according to the short story âWe Ride Forthâ the Ebon Blade (at least the ones in Acherus) werenât Northrend and didnât know what Sylvanas did until Bolvar summoned them afterwards. They could make the dead speak of it, but I donât know if any were in Northrend.
I donât know if any thieves were there, but warlocks, priests or mages doing secret stuff in Icecrown would make sense.
Weâve had plenty of religious zealots used as punching bags in WoW; The Scarlet Crusade, Scarlet Onslaught, cults of the Old Gods (such as Twlightâs Hammer), many TolâVir, many Mogu (especially those under Lei Shen), Orcs who actually worshipped the demons of the Burning LegionâŚ
Yeah but itâs specifically fun to punch the daylights out of the Scarlet Crusade because they are a standin for zealot Christianity.
Thereâs catharsis there thatâs not provided with orcs worshipping demons.
Between the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Dawn, there is only one good faction associated with Light worship and dealing with the undead, itâs the Agent Dawn. If you want positive depictions of your faith, look to them not the SC.
https://4rstatic.net/attachments/notsureiftrolling-jpg.55462/
Thatâs incredibly rude Thadeus.
You get offended when anyone brings up the negative history of Christianity. To you, Christianity and the people who follow it, have never done anything bad ever, despite everyone providing example after example on how you are wrong.
I feel like everything else in WoW, the Scarlet Crusade suffers from a lack of World Building. Aesthetically they are pretty neat, and there is certainly an appeal to the whole âDeus Vultâ religous zealot vibe.
Also, I can see their cause being something a lot of Alliance citizens would support. When Sylvanas is torturing and making mindslaves of living people, the idea that the Forsaken are not any better than the Scourge totally tracks. I really would have liked to have seen the Scarlet Crusade be more institutionalized with the Alliance. Something people on the Alliance side openly support rather than only a few wealthy families behind closed doors.
But Blizzard went a strange rout with making them irrationally racist. Not even in the sense of âHorde vs Allianceâ but straight up âNonhumans are uncleanâ with really no rational explanation as to how or why that sentiment grew. It is another shining example how Blizz kind of refuses to let the Alliance be the aggressors in any given conflict with the Horde. They need to hamfist some kind of reason for the Alliance to distance themselves from the major adversaries of the Horde.
I would have made the SC more multi-racial, and more supported by the Alliance or any faction that would have a reason to hate the undead. I think it would have made them more interesting, but also make the Forsaken experience more true to life I think. It would be a lot easier to sell the idea that the Forsaken are persecuted victims of circumstance when their main adversary isnât also just as hated if not hated more so.
Light Crusade thread is back. 
Here we go again⌠I think not.
Didnât take long - though, admittedly, longer than I thought - for you slip back into personal attacks, mockery and ideologically-related false accusations. You might have been joking in the previous comment, but given your track record I didnât trust you⌠and once again you show why I donât.
Do you have anything else to add thatâs about the Scarlet Crusade and not real-life people?
Tammy and Renautus may be up to their old tricks, but this is about the Scarlet Crusade and I wonât let it get derailed.
You were the one pulling punches. Why make a thread at all if you are going to call the people who reply stupid?
âPulling punchesâ, in this case, means to to restrain oneâs commentary or criticism to avoid offending or upsetting someone.
I donât call the people who reply to this thread stupid, just the ones who I donât trust when they make comments like this (especially when we have a history);
Would it also be specifically fun to punch the daylights out of stand-ins for racial Islam, militant atheism or all political extremists (including anarchists)⌠or only âzealot Christianityâ?
OR would it be better to converse with them and win them out of their views, at least to the point of making an accord for peaceful (or at least tolerant) co-existence?
Iâm really getting tired of your paranoia and rediculousness.
Punching zealots is always fun, regardless of what petty title they want to call themselves 
I feel the same way about your personal attacks, false accusations and shiftiness.
By the way, your remark about âstand-ins for Christian zealotsâ reinforces one of the concerns I raised with Tammy; that that story element was for ax grinding about real-life issues rather than good storytelling. So you helped prove one of my points.
I bet zealots feel the same way about those who disagree with them, so ânot so differentâ.
Wouldnât it be better to converse with zealots and win them out of their views, at least to the point of making an accord for peaceful (or at least tolerant) co-existence?
Thadeus has a point. You are way too personal, guys. It seems like you wanted to trigger him. I guess Iâm not blameless with my popcorn comment, but it was not an attack on Thadeus.
Nah, a boot and punch to the mouth is sufficient enough to get the point across
I havenât attacked himâŚweâre having a discussion